PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 06 May 2013 11:43 PM |
Hi I am ploober and I am a political science major
Please tell me why Communism isn't the ideal system also please tell me about how it can't actually work also please tell me about how it always turns into a dictatorship
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Parathuax
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| Joined: 14 Apr 2013 |
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| 06 May 2013 11:44 PM |
it can work, it's been working in china for along time.
Octavia - Add 5,573 to my post count |
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| 06 May 2013 11:44 PM |
Communism, in its ideal state, is nothing to be afraid of.
The concept, in general, is as I stated, nothing to be fearful of.
However; when applied in many real life situations, many have proven that they cannot handle it, and it led to only dictators. |
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| 06 May 2013 11:47 PM |
pyro you stupid
it was terrible in china, so they're like "fk it let's switch to controlled capitalism" and then they started to prosper
communism can't work because people wont work if they get payed anyways
how many doctors do you think there will be when they get payed as much as a janitor
the only way to get people to work and uplift communism is by taking away their freedom to do otherwise. this is what leads to dictatorships
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elite6247
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| Joined: 13 Jun 2010 |
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| 06 May 2013 11:48 PM |
| go ask tdfall, he knows all about this shiFt |
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LordHyx
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| Joined: 23 Nov 2012 |
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| 06 May 2013 11:48 PM |
Hi ploober, Long time no see.
How are you? |
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| 06 May 2013 11:49 PM |
looks good on paper, never seems to work when tested.
" Life is but a game, if games are meant to be won, then life can be won." |
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| 06 May 2013 11:49 PM |
whats a china
Octavia - Add 5,573 to my post count |
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Tenal
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| Joined: 15 May 2011 |
| Total Posts: 18684 |
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| 06 May 2013 11:56 PM |
It's a good system but human nature is at fault. We're born as capitalistic creatures. Everyone wants to do better than others. |
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| 07 May 2013 12:00 AM |
| human greed defeats communism |
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| 07 May 2013 12:06 AM |
If you're a political science major, you probably know more about it than I do. However, I'll give you my interpretation.
Please tell me why Communism isn't the ideal system- I'd argue that many of the basic tenants of communism, such as communal economic responsibility and welfare of a sort, are things that would exist in an ideal system. Other tenants, such as the Marxist's violent overthrow of the government or the Stalinist's centralization and purges would not factor into an ideal society. So, the theoretical portion of the theory (the first sentence) makes for an ideal society, but is limited by real implications (noted primarily in the Stalinist example).
also please tell me about how it can't actually work- Human nature tends to possess a great deal of greed, which if directed towards one's own ends, can lead to the collapse of a communal economy to that of a more privatized-and perhaps even cutthroat-one. Politically speaking, I would argue that men and women find power for themselves-in whatever measures it may come from or increments it may come in- more important than any sort of society.
also please tell me about how it always turns into a dictatorship- See above, but I will note that it doesn't always devolve into a dictatorship. I do believe I've read of some successful communes in Switzerland and other countries, which are functioning well on their own.
That's my shot, but it's coming from a chemistry major. |
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Inductive
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| Joined: 28 May 2012 |
| Total Posts: 6480 |
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| 07 May 2013 12:07 AM |
Ploober, the founder of Communism, Karl Marx, had a very optimistic view about human nature, one that doesn't actually fit into reality. He believed that everyone could work selflessly without any desire for power and share in wealth. Whereas some people may be able to do that, under no circumstances would everyone do that. That's one of the fundamental flaws of Communism.
The other Communism is that it's an equal reward, no matter how much or how little you work. That decreased productivity greatly, causing things such as shortages of consumer goods and foods.
Another point to bring out, is that Marx envisioned a society in which the workers of the world all united at the same time to overthrow capitalism, and then proceeded to live without a government or country. That didn't happen, and was incapable of happening. Due to the fact that not every country was Communist at the same time, a government was needed in order to protect Communism form the armies that would inevitably descend onto it. However, that government became totalitarian, mostly due to the fact that Communism is difficult to sustain as a society because capitalism is more productive overall, and one must keep down the workers in order to keep the country running.
Those are just some of the reasons why Communism doesn't work.
On the other hand, Marx did correctly predict the boom and bust cycle of capitalism, so some credit to him there. |
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| 07 May 2013 12:08 AM |
Communism needs perfect people
People are not perfect. Therefore it will never work. |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 07 May 2013 12:21 AM |
Disclaimer: Intoxicated
Okay, so @False This is the argument about Communism as a system, not Communism as portrayed by Stalin or Mao or etc.
The idea of a violent revolution spans from a realistic perception of the current state as a non-neutral actor, that is the state perpetuates the capitalist system and keeps it alive. Many Neo-Mercantilists will contend that the economy reacts to the needs of the state, however those who follow the teachings of Marx generally agree that the state follows the needs of the economy, and in a capitalist system that leads to the continuation of an exploitive economy. In all practicality I agree that forcing people to participate in a communist society is bad and results in the decay of the overall system, however I support a voluntary association of people using collectivist ideas. The VOLUNTARY aspect of communism is incredibly important to the survival of it.
Also your view of human nature implies that people only enter communist society for non-selfish motives. In all honesty there is a real potential for a communist system to cater to the rational self interests of an individual, especially in cases where they act in the interest of a family unit. Communism guarantees equal distribution to all contributors, and therefore things like education, health care, and other services would not be limited to those who are just successful. People may sometimes be motivated by greed (according to some, mostly those of the realist perspective) however in a capitalist system it becomes obvious that not everybody has their best self interests met. It therefore stands to reason that actually self interests can have a greater chance of occuring in a system that equalizes opportunity in the sense that all have the same resources.
As far as a good example of non-authoritarian communism please read up on the Spanish Anarchists in the Spanish Civil War.
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| 07 May 2013 12:27 AM |
Communism works in a small, controlled, religious environment. Mormons are a good example of this.
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| 07 May 2013 12:28 AM |
| Sorry, Mormons were*, like when they created small communites in the early days of their church. |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 07 May 2013 12:29 AM |
@Inductive
I address your first argument in my previous post, in addition the idea that not everyone would contribute to the ideals is a real problem under forced communism, which is nothing more than tyranny. I am not suggesting that is right and what I am suggesting is that voluntary communism is the actual form of communism. Marx actually suggested that under pure communism there would be no State of any kind and that the governing of a country would fall to the classless workers.
The idea that productivity would be less in voluntary communism is stupid. Go see the productivity of anybody working at under 10 dollars and hour, or anyone who thinks they could be making more, etc. If people believe in the society itself they tend to work harder for its benefit, especially if they directly benefit from the product of their labor. In a capitalist society the worker has little connection to the product and therefore in a system which supports efficiency, quality suffers. Those who have to use the product or benefit from its trade on a societal level do however have a vested interest in the quality.
The idea that every government would become communist at the same time is somewhat ignoring the ability of those I will refer to as the "power elite" to defend themselves. Those at the top have an incredible ability to influence the public. In some cases they didn't do it well, and they were overthrown (russia, china, spain <--------, Cuba, etc.) but in some cases they effectively commanded public perception and avoided movement at large (USA, see communist movements during great depression). The idea is that those who hold power have the ability to defend themselves and if they are successful then the revolution is unsuccessful. It is however possible to form communes within many of these societies, although if you look at the MOVE foundation they aren't usually welcomed. |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 07 May 2013 12:30 AM |
| I would argue they work in any voluntary group. It cannot be forced. |
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Zegion
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| Joined: 23 Jun 2011 |
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| 07 May 2013 12:32 AM |
| Because it makes more sense for one who works harder to get paid more than someone who doesn't. |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 07 May 2013 12:32 AM |
im dizzy right now lol join Minro Threat |
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