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why don't you use C, scripters?

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justanappaloosan is not online. justanappaloosan
Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 2208
05 May 2013 08:56 PM
quote our savior linus torvald
"C++ is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot
of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much
easier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even if
the choice of C were to do *nothing* but keep the C++ programmers out,
that in itself would be a huge reason to use C.

In other words: the choice of C is the only sane choice. I know Miles
Bader jokingly said "to piss you off", but it's actually true. I've come
to the conclusion that any programmer that would prefer the project to be
in C++ over C is likely a programmer that I really *would* prefer to piss
off, so that he doesn't come and screw up any project I'm involved with.

C++ leads to really really bad design choices. You invariably start using
the "nice" library features of the language like STL and Boost and other
total and utter crap, that may "help" you program, but causes:

- infinite amounts of pain when they don't work (and anybody who tells me
that STL and especially Boost are stable and portable is just so full
of BS that it's not even funny)

- inefficient abstracted programming models where two years down the road
you notice that some abstraction wasn't very efficient, but now all
your code depends on all the nice object models around it, and you
cannot fix it without rewriting your app.

In other words, the only way to do good, efficient, and system-level and
portable C++ ends up to limit yourself to all the things that are
basically available in C. And limiting your project to C means that people
don't screw that up, and also means that you get a lot of programmers that
do actually understand low-level issues and don't screw things up with any
idiotic "object model" crap.

So I'm sorry, but for something like git, where efficiency was a primary
objective, the "advantages" of C++ is just a huge mistake. The fact that
we also piss off people who cannot see that is just a big additional
advantage.

If you want a VCS that is written in C++, go play with Monotone. Really.
They use a "real database". They use "nice object-oriented libraries".
They use "nice C++ abstractions". And quite frankly, as a result of all
these design decisions that sound so appealing to some CS people, the end
result is a horrible and unmaintainable mess.

But I'm sure you'd like it more than git"
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thedestroyer115 is not online. thedestroyer115
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 11546
05 May 2013 08:57 PM
hi u ok
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ColorlessBody is not online. ColorlessBody
Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 193
05 May 2013 09:01 PM
C encourages bad practice by allowing programmers to use features like pointers that make it easy to mess up things. It's much harder to mess up in high level languages with garbage collection and abstracted constructs. This is true to such a point that while it could be said to be difficult in C to avoid memory leaks, in a language like Lua, it could be said that it is difficult to actually cause memory leaks.

This is true for memory management, but also for many other things, in particular programming constructs and type management.

_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris
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Bitminer is not online. Bitminer
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 501
05 May 2013 09:02 PM
here comes a horde of eleet python devs using probably the worst language since list

import butts
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lombardo2 is not online. lombardo2
Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 1604
05 May 2013 09:02 PM
With great power comes great responsibility.
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ColorlessBody is not online. ColorlessBody
Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 193
05 May 2013 09:04 PM
I particularly like very high level languages like Prolog, Mercury or ECLiPSe, because while they're incredibly hard to get used to, it's almost literally impossible to mess up in them on anything other than syntax.

_________________________________________________________________________
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris
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justanappaloosan is not online. justanappaloosan
Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 2208
05 May 2013 09:08 PM
>C encourages bad practice by allowing programmers to use features like pointers that make it easy to mess up things. It's much harder to mess up in high level languages with garbage collection and abstracted constructs. This is true to such a point that while it could be said to be difficult in C to avoid memory leaks, in a language like Lua, it could be said that it is difficult to actually cause memory leaks.

This is true for memory management, but also for many other things, in particular programming constructs and type management.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
top notch reasoning "it encourages bad practice"
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justanappaloosan is not online. justanappaloosan
Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 2208
05 May 2013 09:08 PM
>I particularly like very high level languages like Prolog, Mercury or ECLiPSe, because while they're incredibly hard to get used to, it's almost literally impossible to mess up in them on anything other than syntax.
so basically you're a programming hipster

because nobody uses any of those
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miz656 is not online. miz656
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 15336
05 May 2013 09:52 PM
I do use C, C has power.
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pwnedu46 is not online. pwnedu46
Joined: 23 May 2009
Total Posts: 7534
06 May 2013 01:23 PM
To be honest, I don't care about Linus Torvalds's opinion on what language is "good" or "bad". Use what works, and don't let your opinion be skewed because of what some somewhat famous (or even famous, for that matter) person says or thinks about a subject. They are both good languages, along with Java, Python, Lua, and so many others.
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justanappaloosan is not online. justanappaloosan
Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 2208
06 May 2013 01:29 PM
@pwnedu46
have you ever released an application all around the world and managed an entire foundation dedicated to maintaining it and keeping it high quality didnt think so nerd gb2github
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pwnedu46 is not online. pwnedu46
Joined: 23 May 2009
Total Posts: 7534
06 May 2013 01:37 PM
I never said I have, but that doesn't make my point any less valid.
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MrChubbs is not online. MrChubbs
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 4969
06 May 2013 01:39 PM
C++ is better than C for applications with a higher level of abstraction, and I for one refuse to give up classes, without them OOP would be much harder.
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Adam335 is not online. Adam335
Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 21464
06 May 2013 02:07 PM
I'm learning C, it's the base for multiple languages.
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MrChubbs is not online. MrChubbs
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 4969
06 May 2013 02:09 PM
Actually C is also the base for the vast majority OSes, but Assembly is the base for C and so on, so it makes little difference.
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Fattycat17 is not online. Fattycat17
Joined: 26 Jun 2011
Total Posts: 1527
06 May 2013 02:46 PM
C Is really trash compared to what C++ can do.

<-- Look over or there -->
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Adam335 is not online. Adam335
Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 21464
06 May 2013 02:51 PM
C is 95% of C++, though.
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AbsoluteLOL is not online. AbsoluteLOL
Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 3939
06 May 2013 02:54 PM
"quote our savior linus torvald"
Oh dear. It's the Yafaray (or whatever his name is) kid again.
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MrChubbs is not online. MrChubbs
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 4969
06 May 2013 02:57 PM
Richard Stallman >Linus Torvalds
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AbsoluteLOL is not online. AbsoluteLOL
Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 3939
06 May 2013 03:05 PM
@Fatty
C++ == C + Classes
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MrChubbs is not online. MrChubbs
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 4969
06 May 2013 03:08 PM
Actually, Absolute, the original name for C++ was "C with classes" so you're just slightly off there.
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