PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:02 PM |
@the WIJ guy, I think it is at least fair to allow the actual date originally agreed upon to happen instead of moving the date up while PSP is on vacation
I also wonder why WIJ was in such a hurry? Could their clan have kept up its raiding habits for 9 more days or not? |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:04 PM |
| If John says he gave that power to his HR's I would agree with you. I cannot operate under assumptions that we have no proof of however, only what I can see made public. |
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benblue
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| Joined: 08 May 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1916 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:05 PM |
"Targeted exploits and admin abusing will not be tolerated by either side."
WIJ did not declare an unconditional victory due to raid wins - they simply stated the raid wins to show their clear superiority over JC. WIJ declared a conditional victory on account of admin abuse and exploring that was not properly responded to in a expedient manner by JC. |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:05 PM |
What you are saying, is more like
If someones kid hits someone elses kid, you are totally good as the parent of the victim to beat the living crap out of the other kid if his parents are away at work. |
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Celestus
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| Joined: 15 Aug 2011 |
| Total Posts: 14873 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:06 PM |
'SS claims to be the official fella, but what about JC? Maybe John gave some power to the JC HRs?
If not, then the JC HRs were idiots to make such decisions.'
I think what he means is that officially whoever owns the group, can make the final decision. Devolving powers should in no way be a disadvantage and arguing it as a case is stupid. You really think anywhere it has been officially stated that in his absence they are able to make the decision on whether or not a final battle can be done tomorrow, prior to an original date being set upon. Highly doubt such terms have been set anyway. If you are arguing that and can prove it, so be it, but I doubt the proof.
As for the JC HRs, the decisions idiotic or not, as SS are 'not official'. |
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Celestus
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| Joined: 15 Aug 2011 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:08 PM |
'WIJ declared a conditional victory on account of admin abuse and exploring that was not properly responded to in a expedient manner by JC.'
It was already agreed upon, this failure to properly respond to admin abuse would result in the war being ceased. No conditional victory. |
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Rovert10
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| Joined: 18 Aug 2009 |
| Total Posts: 2465 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:08 PM |
However cashpop. pspjohn1 immediately rebuted the decision and made it null and void for JC.
The controversy here is whether or not WIJ was right to just take home the unconditional victory.
If it were me, I would just wait and redo the battle. Since we have nothing to lose anyways. But I am not SS nor Owen nor am I part of HICOM.
However the community has just accepted our declaration of victory. So if we're going by that then why bother?
Controversial for certain but I am uncertain if it is worth the attention it is recieving right now. |
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:09 PM |
| I don't see the community as accepting the victory. I see WIJ accepting the victory. |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:10 PM |
If JC can't make any decisions without pspjohn and he is on vacation, then why didn't they postpone the war?
Quit speaking for JC when neither of you are a part of them. |
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nahom007
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| Joined: 05 Mar 2011 |
| Total Posts: 18274 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:11 PM |
"I don't see the community as accepting the victory. I see WIJ accepting the victory."
Then I don't see you and Celestus arguing on this thread to be productive.
I see JC as the ones to make their own arguments with first-hand talks with other WIJ HRs. |
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cashpop
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| Joined: 11 Aug 2008 |
| Total Posts: 2984 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:11 PM |
You don't see the community accepting?
Look at the forums from both of WIJ and JC.
You can see the hate and love.
Honestly all this arguing is pointless. We can go on and on, but there is no winner in this.
I just want the FB to end all this.
And yes this is signaling I am done for now. |
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Celestus
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| Joined: 15 Aug 2011 |
| Total Posts: 14873 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:12 PM |
'If JC can't make any decisions without pspjohn and he is on vacation, then why didn't they postpone the war?
Quit speaking for JC when neither of you are a part of them.'
Because they didn't have to postpone it, should the original rules have been kept to by WIJ the battle would have been on the 20th and he would have got back for vacation.
Also, we have all right to speak for anyone who we choose to. |
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nahom007
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| Joined: 05 Mar 2011 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:14 PM |
"Also, we have all right to speak for anyone who we choose to."
So in turn the community has the right to agree that WIJ has won the war.
And I'm just comparing two different situations here, just as how you did with SS claiming Owen doesn't lead WIJ and Pspjohn calling off something his HRs called.
So please stop trying to make a big fuss on C&G to prove something. |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:15 PM |
No, you dont.
You don't have any right to speak for someone at all unless they let you.
Why isn't JC here? Let them argue.
Oh wait.
They forfeited. |
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Celestus
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| Joined: 15 Aug 2011 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:15 PM |
@Cash
That is generally WIJ members posting their support, not those neutral to both.
Might I also point out, we are not speaking on behalf of JC, we are pointing out the rules WIJ has broke, as such moves should be highlighted in the possible event of war in future.
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PLOOBER33
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| Joined: 30 Jun 2007 |
| Total Posts: 7513 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:15 PM |
| You may want to actually read that thread I put on the first page of this. |
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Rovert10
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| Joined: 18 Aug 2009 |
| Total Posts: 2465 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:16 PM |
@bionicle and nahom
They still retain their right to state their arguements and opinions. Whether you like it or not, they can still do it.
If it annoys you to this extent then don't bother to argue and ignore them. Let the situation handle itself.
Discourse is your only way to find solid answers regardless of who it is you're having it with. |
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furt7483
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| Joined: 28 Aug 2012 |
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nahom007
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| Joined: 05 Mar 2011 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:16 PM |
@Rovert
No I'm just enjoying myself as to how they're getting in over their heads over something that has already happened.
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Rovert10
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| Joined: 18 Aug 2009 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:18 PM |
@nahom007
Okay... then why bother to post? Just to fan the flames? |
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Celestus
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| Joined: 15 Aug 2011 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:21 PM |
Anyway, having read those who posted in this thread.
Out of the 5 non-WIJ who posted. 4 posted comments supporting my evidence, one argued against it. |
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cashpop
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| Joined: 11 Aug 2008 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:21 PM |
Here is what you argue, celestus, like you said, you go by the loophole that the war will cease if there are AA's by either side and so WIJ cannot declare a victory because it did not state that in the original contract,
What I am saying is that it isn't set in stone. Their discussions could have changed up the rules. The JC HRs may or may not have the power to talk to SS and owen to make such decisions, but who stopped them? John is off at vacation at this time. Such a time really. So this is very bad play on the hierarchy of JC.
What;s the bottom line of this?
We can only argue more and more.
Honestly, I blame owen for not letting the FB happen at the right time. This we both can agree on.
I just want the FB.
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:27 PM |
Heck, I argued for the FB to be moved to Saturday instead on the ST wall, because it was going to fast.
I wanted a FB, but JC backed out.
JC backed out.
JC lost. By backing out they accepted defeat. |
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nahom007
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| Joined: 05 Mar 2011 |
| Total Posts: 18274 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:29 PM |
| Seems like STs are going to have to force them to an FB |
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Celestus
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| Joined: 15 Aug 2011 |
| Total Posts: 14873 |
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| 11 Apr 2013 09:34 PM |
Devolving powers should in no way be a disadvantage and arguing it as a case is wrong. You really think anywhere it has been officially stated that in his absence they are able to make the decision on whether or not a final battle can be done tomorrow, prior to an original date being set upon. Highly doubt such terms have been set anyway. If you are arguing that and can prove it, so be it, but I doubt the proof. From what I have heard, pspjohn refused to go ahead with the final battle anyway at that given date, being the final decision maker that is his choice.
Yes owen should have gone with the agreed final battle date. Backing out of one which was set the day before by one group doesn't account to a defeat. |
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