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Re: @XC62 - Perfect Example of taking verses out of context

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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:14 PM
I said, "Please show me a single Christian New Testament passage that hates on LGBT," and you, laughibly enough, replied:

"1 Corinthians 6:9–10
Romans 1:26-27
1 Timothy 1:10"

I know I started this post in a contentious manner, but that was just to get your attention.
I don't intend to make this a contentious discussion.
Just smile and then read this.

Let's look at the first verses.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

First off, this has absolutely nothing to do with the point of saying it's okay to hate on LGBT people.
Second off, you are implying these verses say that anyone who does these things will go to Hell.

Let's read the verses around it, shall we?

"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." - 1 Corinthians 6:11

So, here, Paul is saying that the ones he is writing to (he's writing to the church of Corinth), are not "unrighteous."
He says they are sanctified and justified.

Now you're probably thinking, "so he's saying the church is perfect and does none of these sins?"
Well, actually, let's read the verse right before it.

"Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren." - 1 Corinthians 6:9

These lists of sins Paul is ACCUSING the church of Corinth of.
Actually read the entire epistle.
This entire epistle is about Paul saying that the church of Corinth is on the wrong path.
Which is what most of his epistles are about.

So, how can someone be "sanctified" and "justified" while still doing everything he listed as sin?
Paul says this a lot through his epistles (which make up half the New Testament).

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

That was in Paul's letter to the church in Ephesus.
Also read his letter to the church of Galatia (Galatians).
He talks about this on much greater detail, there.

My point is, it makes no sense to conclude that "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" means they are going to Hell for doing those things, if he right after that says that the people of Corinth are "righteous and justified."

But he doesn't just say "justified," he says, "justified in the name of the Lord Jesus".
Paul's entire argument through Acts and all of his epistles, which makes up the majority of the New Testament, is that humans are saved through faith in Jesus and made righteous simply for believing and asking for forgiveness.
And then afterwards, making mistakes and sinning again does not condemn you to Hell.

But I can't just say your definition is wrong and not give my own.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19

Here, Jesus shows that those who follow what he says ("commandments" here refers to the commandments he is about to list, not the 10 Commandments or any other parts of the Law of Moses) will be "called great."

What Paul is basically saying here is that even those in Heaven will be judged according to their works.
You will have basically "ranks" based on how faithful you were on Earth.

You don't "inherit the kingdom of God," meaning, you don't get the rewards, or at least, as much.
Although, both of these verses tends to imply either "yes" or "no" to whether you get rewards or not.

So some may argue that there are only two "ranks."
Those who are called "great" and those who are called "least."

From this argument, we can assume that Paul is referring to those called "least."
Meaning, they don't inherit the kingdom of God, but that does not say they will not "enter the kingdom of God."
There's a difference..



I will answer the next 2 verses if you want me to, but I think I made my point with the first one.
Don't quote verses from "EvilBible.com" and think that's a legit, unbias source.

Anyways, read John 8 if you want to see what Jesus thinks about harming others for sinning.
I'll tell you right now that he says you should not do it.
But the story is really cool in how he brings about this message.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:18 PM
"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the "gender"ually immoral, for those practicing homo"gender"uality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

that was Timothy 1:9; 1 Timothy 1:10
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:20 PM
also

PM system
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cheeser124 is not online. cheeser124
Joined: 22 May 2009
Total Posts: 8250
11 Apr 2013 06:21 PM
None of those promote hate. Conviction, but not hate. At least, people aren't supposed to hate, but human nature, and yolo.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:22 PM
well people aren't supposed to replace logic with a book anyway
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:22 PM
@XC62

Please explain to me how that says that it's okay to hate on LGBT people or how God hates LGBT people.
In fact, that is one of my favorite set of verses. Because it explains the purpose of the Mosaic Law.
Paul explains the purpose of the Mosaic Law other places, such as in Galatians, but I like this one the most.

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:24-25

The point of the Mosaic Law was to simply teach people that they could not be perfect.
That's what Jesus abolished the Mosaic Law.


But, back to the original point.
You have to explain how those verses provide any sort of reasoning to hate on LGBT people.

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Jesus (Matthew 5:39)
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:24 PM
"Please explain to me how that says that it's okay to hate on LGBT people or how God hates LGBT people."

he clearly implies that LGBT people are immoral by comparing them with "lawbreakers and rebels" and "for those who kill their mothers"
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:32 PM
@xc62

>"he clearly implies that LGBT people are immoral by comparing them with 'lawbreakers and rebels'"

The Mosaic Law was against LGBT.
So, that's rather a fact that it was again the law.


>"and 'for those who kill their mothers'"

You really need to understand how lists work.
If I say, "I like bread and cookies," I am not saying cookies = bread because they are both to my liking.

If your logic was correct, then the first verse you posted, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, that would say thievery = adultery.
See? That just doesn't hold up.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" - Romans 3:23-24

In this situation, Paul, as shown here in his epistle to the Romans, is saying not that being gay = murdering your parents, but that they have equal punishment.

Because all sins are of equal punishment.
And everyone sins.
Everyone is damned to Hell from birth, because I doubt you can even make it to the age of 1 without doing one thing sinful. In fact, not believing in Jesus/God is considered a sin.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." - John 3:18

But that's why you go to Heaven simply by believing.
Sinning does not send you to Hell.

And as Jesus showed in John 8, we should not hate on those who we believe are sinful.
Jesus does not condemn you.
You go to Heaven for believing.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:33 PM
then why is the christian right against lgb marriage again???
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:43 PM
@XC62

Why are you against traditional marriage?
Because you do not agree with it.

You don't get the problem.
You see, the problem isn't marriage, is that the entirety of Americans, both Christians and atheists, are indoctrinated to believe that Bigger Government = Good.

So the argument becomes, "should we force traditional marriage on the People, or should we force equal marriage on the people?"
The fact that both you liberals AND conservatives think that we should force any type of marriage on the People is simply ridiculous.


Let me give you a scenario to help explain my point:

- Guy A believes blue paint is made with chemicals that can induce cancer.
- The government is currently forcing people to drive only red cars.
- Guy B says that the government should also allow you to drive blue cars.
- Guy A then says he doesn't want blue cars because he thinks it's bad.
- Guy B says, "we, it's okay. You don't have to drive the blue cars."

That's the ridiculousness of the argument.
Equal marriage doesn't allow for traditional marriage, in the same way in which selling blue and red cars doesn't allow for no cars.

But, there is a solution to this problem.
A way both Guy A and Guy B can be happy.
Guy A can avoid his blue cars and Guy B can get them.

The government simply should step back and say, "hey, drive whatever cars you want. Manufacture any cars you want. We don't care, don't bother us about it."

Now, the problem isn't even related to the government.
You just gave people freedom.


Free marriage is the same concept.
The government should back away and stop trying to force things down people's throats.
But both conservatives and liberals are convinced that the government SHOULD control their social lives.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:44 PM
allowing people of the same gender to marry is not forcing people to marry
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:45 PM
>"allowing people of the same gender to marry is not forcing people to marry"

You did not read any of my post, did you?
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:45 PM
of course i did
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:47 PM
@XC

Okay, I'm done.
You're just blatantly lying now.
Because I knew, for a fact, that you would jump to that stupid conclusion.
So I purposely provided examples to target that conclusion.

Plus, I also know you're lying because you have been replying to my posts seconds after I post them.
There is no way you could be reading them for meaning in this time.

You're reading one or two sentences and assuming the meaning.
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skyarex is not online. skyarex
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 12989
11 Apr 2013 06:47 PM
That is what XC does. It is annoying, but yeah. He does that.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:48 PM
"Equal marriage doesn't allow for traditional marriage, in the same way in which selling blue and red cars doesn't allow for no cars."

Yes it does. Two hetero people can marry traditionally in any way possible. Allowing same gender marriages will not have any impact on hetero marriages.
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:51 PM
@XC

>"Yes it does. Two hetero people can marry traditionally in any way possible. Allowing same gender marriages will not have any impact on hetero marriages."

Okay, you're just a blundering buffoon.
I proved that that argument is stupid and crap with my car analogy.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:51 PM
Say you manufacture a new type of car, called B. It is hated by a lot of people because that's the norm.

They claim that people driving around in B will cause more crashes and affect the quality of cars A, but of course, this is not true.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:53 PM
"I proved that that argument is stupid and crap with my car analogy."

Analogies mean nothing if they're wrong.

"- Guy A believes blue paint is made with chemicals that can induce cancer.
- The government is currently forcing people to drive only red cars.
- Guy B says that the government should also allow you to drive blue cars.
- Guy A then says he doesn't want blue cars because he thinks it's bad.
- Guy B says, "we, it's okay. You don't have to drive the blue cars.""

Except the "blue car causing cancer" does not apply to same gender marriage because same gender marriage does not cause cancer or any harm to anyone else, thus your analogy is invalid.
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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:54 PM
@xc62

Okay, just stop. That argument is really pathetic.
>"They claim that people driving around in B will cause more crashes and affect the quality of cars A, but of course, this is not true."

It's actually a fact that red cars get into more accidents.
That's why car insurance is higher for red-painted cars.


Your problem is here, "but of course, this is not true".

You're ignorantly assuming that the argument is a lie and untrue.
What if the blue paint really induces cancer?
That is completely logical. I mean, we used to have yellow paint that would literally kill people within months before it was outlawed.


You cannot prejudicely assume an argument you know nothing about is false.
That's not only bigotry, but idiocy.

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HaikuOS is not online. HaikuOS
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1569
11 Apr 2013 06:55 PM
>"Except the "blue car causing cancer" does not apply to same gender marriage because same gender marriage does not cause cancer or any harm to anyone else, thus your analogy is invalid."

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Okay, that's it.
I'm never debating with you again.
Never.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:55 PM
"What if the blue paint really induces cancer?"

But first, you must provide evidence.

Provide evidence that same gender marriage has negative effects on anyone else and I will begin to take you seriously.
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XC62 is not online. XC62
Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 5361
11 Apr 2013 06:56 PM
"Okay, that's it.
I'm never debating with you again.
Never."

I'm horrified.
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skyarex is not online. skyarex
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 12989
11 Apr 2013 06:59 PM
Yeah...XC Is pretty much a nightmare to argue with.

Mainly due to the fact that he can never admit when he is wrong. Which is, to be frank, quite often.
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megaluigi24 is not online. megaluigi24
Joined: 03 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 7588
11 Apr 2013 06:59 PM
You should not try to debate with XC62. He is a very dirty debater and he uses a lot of cheating techniques.
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