generic image
Processing...
  • Games
  • Catalog
  • Develop
  • Robux
  • Search in Players
  • Search in Games
  • Search in Catalog
  • Search in Groups
  • Search in Library
  • Log In
  • Sign Up
  • Games
  • Catalog
  • Develop
  • Robux
   
ROBLOX Forum » Club Houses » Clans & Guilds
Home Search
 

Re: If you're going to argue about communism...

Previous Thread :: Next Thread 
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:12 AM
Here's a few things you should know...

Communism is an economic ideology, such as feudalism, socialism, and capitalism.

A democracy is a transition government, however you reach a democracy doesn't matter, but once you're done transitioning, you will end up with a form of a republic or an oligarchy. (Dictatorships don't actually exist, all dictators have other powerful people who work on their side, even if they have less power, and function similar to the US's military leaders or the cabinet of advisers the president has). So, all dictatorships are actually oligarchies. On ROBLOX, this might be different, because of the nature of the group system, but we're not referring to ROBLOX here.

The United States of America is a "Constitutionally Limited Federal Republic". What does this mean? Well, it's straightforward. The government is limited by the constitution, or by a set of laws. We have a federal system, meaning the power is centered in one place, or the federal government. It has more power than the states do, simple as that. (I believe the "unitary" system is the polar opposite, where the individual parts of a state, or country, have more equal amounts of power).

The United States of America does not have pure capitalism, and most likely, no country ever has. Using the success of "capitalistic" states as evidence that capitalism is better than communism is flawed. Most of these states throughout history have had government control and regulation, reminiscent of socialism. The US now actually has communism thrown right into the mix, and it's not hard to find...

Cuba, China, The USSR, etc... All of these examples of "communist" states that have failed that are used to argue against communism are all debatable. None of these states have had true communism, and many of them will use policies that don't actually fit or follow the communistic ideal. This is because they are combating human nature, which is to compete. This nature is the same with just about all other animals as well. Survival of the fittest. It is difficult for a communistic state to become communistic, so they create strict systems and policies, and then have difficulties controlling the people. The idea itself is not flawed because these states and their leaders were unable to properly set it up for a few lifetimes.

Corruption, please look that word up before you use it. The US is corrupt. Most governments are in the real world. (The entire political party system just screams corruption, all the parties care about is power in the government, and they strive to obtain this power by any means necessary).

So please, understand the difference between a form of government and a type of economy. Understand that no country has ever had a pure form of any type of economy, and that no country can be used as a strong example fully supporting or fully challenging any type of economy. And of course, understand what corruption is, how it is caused, and that it correlates with all types of economies, and is not limited to any one type specifically. Emphasis on the word "correlates".

Also, a monarchy is an oligarchy. Most forms of government can be grouped into two categories, because the core of just about every form basically fits either a representative body limited by law, or a powerful group of elites, as a theme.

In relation to clans... it's difficult to use an actual economic ideology in a clan, but CSA will features some of the principles of one. So, it's possible, but there really is a lack of an "economy" to apply the ideology to. For government types... Yes, it is possible to have a changing leader who is voted in, but it's not practical in many cases, because of the risks. There's no check system. I propose, for all of you "democracies" and republic, that you instead have a proprietor who listens to the elected executive, and the executive is given all powers possible. (So the only things that must be changed by the proprietor would be the group description and logo, and the promotion/demotion of the president, basically). This is much safer, and the proprietor can be a sort of judge, making sure rules are followed, and things run smoothly.

For other forms of government... you can go run however you like. There's really not much to say, since we have the most experience, as a clan world, with dictatorships and oligarchies. I am just proposing a strategy for the democracies and such of ROBLOX.

And be careful when you're calling a clan or a person "corrupt". First, understand what the word means, and then if it doesn't fit the person you're denouncing, then switch to a better suited word. It's that simple.

Imagine a chalk board, and imagine someone creating that screeching sound on it... That's what your arguments regarding communism sound like, whatever side of the line that you're on. I'd like to state that I am not arguing either side here, just trying to clear things up. If anyone can provide legitimate evidence that I have made a mistake, then please let me know. But, I'd like sufficient proof, otherwise you just sound like a screeching chalkboard.

Have fun... You'll find there isn't much of a reason to argue... There's not much to actually argue.

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:13 AM
TL;DR

[ http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=93253073 ]

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
davidms55 is not online. davidms55
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 1634
30 Mar 2013 06:13 AM
My eyes!

They burn!

Too many words!

★-Hail RBE! Glory to Bladeria!-★
Report Abuse
specialop987 is not online. specialop987
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3508
30 Mar 2013 06:21 AM
Socialism is actually working pretty well here in Australia, all we need to be considered communist is to abolish private property, private companies and label ourselves communist and these are the only three things we now need here to be considered communist for example if you don't go to work you still get payed by the government and there is carbon tax.
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:22 AM
Germany is socialistic, and one of the most developed countries in the world. (More so than the US). I think Australia is up there too.

Good examples of how it works well.

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
specialop987 is not online. specialop987
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3508
30 Mar 2013 06:23 AM
The socialist party of Australia's called Labour Party and right now they're providing excellent welfare services and pensions for people here. Now the only 3 things needed is to abolish private property, private companies and label ourselves communist/socialist country, in THEORY we may be considered capitalist like America but in REALITY we already are socialist but just 3 things needed to pass.
Report Abuse
eletrowiz is not online. eletrowiz
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 12438
30 Mar 2013 06:24 AM
A good summary of some political systems, but you didn't clear up the difference between republics and democracies, which are commonly mixed up.

Democracies are systems where all decisions made (usually just major ones) HAVE to be voted upon by the public. It's a rather slow system, however, in theory, the public's opinion. In practice, many of the ballots in history have been fixed to the 'correct' amount.

Republics are slightly different in one aspect. In Republics, the public elects officials to represent their ideas and wants, and these officials then make or vote upon decisions, in favour of the public. This has one advantage over democracies, in the fact that is much faster. However officials may lie to the public, and not actually do as they were elected to do.

-={3137}=-
Report Abuse
MajorSparkz is not online. MajorSparkz
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 1735
30 Mar 2013 06:25 AM
This is actually very interesting, because I'm quite young, this is really interesting to read.


does yo girl get low
Report Abuse
specialop987 is not online. specialop987
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3508
30 Mar 2013 06:27 AM
So next time people talk about creeping socialism/communism or complain about it tell them it's Already Here.
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:27 AM
I figured people could look up to the two.

Ancient Greece = democracy.

Ancient Rome = republic

In Greece, they helped people take time off their jobs and go vote, but it eventually lead to a single ruler in times of war.

In Rome, similar things happened, and for the same reasons... (Ended up with a single authority). But, Rome was always a volatile state...

Anyway, thanks for adding that.

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
eletrowiz is not online. eletrowiz
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 12438
30 Mar 2013 06:28 AM
My major argument over Communism is that of no private property. People should have a right to own something and call theirs. It would be like having a pet dog, that has been raised by you, and kept by you for 10 years, however is needed to help blind people, so your dog is taken away from you.

It also severely decreases morale in some senses, such as the fact that you may not see the point of working hard, since the government gives you everything, and that anything you earn can be taken away if they want to.

-={3137}=-
Report Abuse
GTAboy98 is not online. GTAboy98
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 414
30 Mar 2013 06:28 AM
well

this guy is clever
Report Abuse
eletrowiz is not online. eletrowiz
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 12438
30 Mar 2013 06:31 AM
@Gta

You just saw an endangered species on the CnG.

-={3137}=-
Report Abuse
thegalaxin is not online. thegalaxin
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Total Posts: 16366
30 Mar 2013 06:31 AM

boy that escalated quickly.
Report Abuse
thegalaxin is not online. thegalaxin
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Total Posts: 16366
30 Mar 2013 06:32 AM

""Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph"

> Scottish Tombstone Epitaph

Im scottish :D
Report Abuse
eletrowiz is not online. eletrowiz
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 12438
30 Mar 2013 06:33 AM
"Im scottish :D"

I'm American. BURGERS. :D

-={3137}=-
Report Abuse
specialop987 is not online. specialop987
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3508
30 Mar 2013 06:35 AM
One of the reasons I support communism is because it is the worst enemy of fascism and discrimination and haters.
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:35 AM
There are different incentives.

Any smart administrators in a communistic state would find solutions to that.

In CSA, which I'll use communistic ideals with, I am finding things to replace the general incentive to do well in a clan, promotions.

With communism, you're supposed to work for the betterment of the group, not yourself. (Which is one reason why it does not work well with humans, but I am sure another intelligent race that is less selfishly inclined would pull it off nicely). Besides that, people, through various psychological studies, are not made happy by money and wealth and such. They are happy when they do something they enjoy doing. (A hobby you make money from, if you love being a doctor, then the salary does not mean much to you).

So, that points, from what I know, is easily invalidated. You're given what you need, so I am sure that they would not take away your dog, which you might have for protection or companionship, and give it to someone else. Dogs must be trained specially to help the blind, first of all, and second of all, the government has plenty of resources to give a blind individual a dog to aid them that does not have any specific owner.

But I agree, I like to have my possessions, and I'd like to own some things. Living in a pure communistic society might not seem so great... but you can still have the same rights as any other state... (Such as those on the Bill of Rights). Just without owning property... You'll still live in a house, have that shelter, have land to live on, and have the food and such that you need. (A successful communistic society wouldn't have mass blindness caused by starvation like North Korea does).

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:35 AM
*pointf, oops

Yeah, I love this quote... V

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:36 AM
Eh... maybe it's too early for me to be typing. :/

*point

If only there was a way we could fix mistakes after posting something on a forum...

*cough* edit *cough*

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
specialop987 is not online. specialop987
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3508
30 Mar 2013 06:38 AM
@8sun, one of the points of communism is to eliminate greed.
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:39 AM
Yeah, which is fine.

Greed isn't so great, and that's been taught for around 2000 years or more, at least.

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
specialop987 is not online. specialop987
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3508
30 Mar 2013 06:42 AM
The abolition of private property's point is to change and evolve our nature into a greed-free one which means to try and eliminate greed from humanity.
Report Abuse
eletrowiz is not online. eletrowiz
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 12438
30 Mar 2013 06:42 AM
Well when I talked about the dog, I didn't mean literally. :p

The best government is a hybrid. The worse are the kind that are developed to "beat" corruption. It's much better to instead of ignorantly trying vanquish corruption, to instead figure out ways to reduce it and decrease its effect.

-={3137}=-
Report Abuse
8SunTzu8 is not online. 8SunTzu8
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 8199
30 Mar 2013 06:52 AM
I went further with your metaphor to show you how things should work out.

I know you used it only as an example, but it was an interesting one.

I don't think communism attempts to beat corruption, necessarily. People typically attribute corruption to the government. Although, it does fight greed, which can result in corruption...

Who is meant to lead a communistic state... if the state owns everything, then who should own the state? Shouldn't it be the people? Although, in the case of a democracy, where the people rule the government, the majority can work just like a tyrannical king can. Hence the US's lack of a democracy.

"Consider, friend, as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, you too shall be. Prepare, therefore, to follow me." -Scottish Tombstone Epitaph
Report Abuse
Previous Thread :: Next Thread 
Page 1 of 1
 
 
ROBLOX Forum » Club Houses » Clans & Guilds
   
 
   
  • About Us
  • Jobs
  • Blog
  • Parents
  • Help
  • Terms
  • Privacy

©2017 Roblox Corporation. Roblox, the Roblox logo, Robux, Bloxy, and Powering Imagination are among our registered and unregistered trademarks in the U.S. and other countries.



Progress
Starting Roblox...
Connecting to Players...
R R

Roblox is now loading. Get ready to play!

R R

You're moments away from getting into the game!

Click here for help

Check Remember my choice and click Launch Application in the dialog box above to join games faster in the future!

Gameplay sponsored by:
Loading 0% - Starting game...
Get more with Builders Club! Join Builders Club
Choose Your Avatar
I have an account
generic image