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Re: Willing to argue in favor of Communism

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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 09:58 PM
Anybody think they can argue that Capitalism is superior to Communism for preserving civil society?
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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 09:58 PM
RAT CLAN
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aso2 is not online. aso2
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 11944
29 Mar 2013 09:59 PM
communism is 4 nerds




-\By the definition of perpendicular-\
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Imperatos is not online. Imperatos
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 17745
29 Mar 2013 09:59 PM
Communism is an Ethiopia
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Vekul is not online. Vekul
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5067
29 Mar 2013 09:59 PM
Ploob, would you want to live in a Communist Society, where everyone has the same wealth?Hell you probably wouldn't have half the things you have today.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 09:59 PM
Democratic Socialism will reign superior. The issue with communism is no one has a reason to work. The issue with Capitalism is people have to work too had, and half the time don't even make ends-meat afterwards. Democratic socialism is the balance that the people need.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 10:00 PM
"Ploob, would you want to live in a Communist Society, where everyone has the same wealth?Hell you probably wouldn't have half the things you have today."

Actually, if you looked at the spread of wealth charts, everyone in the bottom 90% (that includes the middle class), would have much more wealth then previously. In fact most of the middle class would have double their wealth.
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StrawHatPirate is not online. StrawHatPirate
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 2779
29 Mar 2013 10:01 PM
OH BOY GUYS. LETS ALL GO LIVE IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. I'M SURE I'LL HAVE THE SAME PRIVILEGES I DO NOW.
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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 10:02 PM
Communism actually doesn't guarantee that everybody is forced to have the same wealth, etc, however that the products of community labor is equally distributed. That is, individual labor, etc, is not automatically taken and redistributed. Essentially you are given an equal share of X product, usually resulting in at least a living space, food, clothing, etc, But if you want to add a bar/man cave to your house by chopping up the trees in your backyard you are welcome to do that.

Statist Communism is what you are referring to.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 10:03 PM
"OH BOY GUYS. LETS ALL GO LIVE IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. I'M SURE I'LL HAVE THE SAME PRIVILEGES I DO NOW."

Well we don't exactly have every privilege, and we still don't have equal rights, so I mean, in reality you're not loosing anything.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 10:04 PM
Ploober I would rather hire someone to build my man cave tyvm.
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meto02 is not online. meto02
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 11373
29 Mar 2013 10:04 PM
I don't why people automatically think Capitalism = freedom.

But I'm not gonna add on to the argument for the sake of my time.


✯ WIJ Sergeant ✯
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superflarpflarp is not online. superflarpflarp
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 14306
29 Mar 2013 10:04 PM
I just couldn't stand people walking right up to my house.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 10:06 PM
@Super, Mormons and other religious groups do that already. But Democratic Socialism wouldn't allow that.
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BOSSBOS is not online. BOSSBOS
Joined: 20 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 278
29 Mar 2013 10:06 PM
OH YEAH GUYS I AGREE LETS GO MOVE TO A COMMUNIST COUNTRY AND LOOSE MOST OF OUR RIGHTS! AND BE A SLAVE OF THE LEADER!!!!!! WHOOOO COMMUNISM IS STUPID! AND CAPITALISIM IS GREAT!
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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 10:06 PM
And actually the idea that people wouldn't have a reason to work under communism compared to capitalism is stupid. Go to any hourly paid worker and see how much extra effort he puts into his 8 dollars an hour.


In a society that relies on its production as a way of life, quality could determine a lot of things, especially of the society puts the products directly back into the society (for instance car manufacturing) or if the product is traded in the global economy between other societies (thus quality would make a difference in attracting buyers)
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superflarpflarp is not online. superflarpflarp
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 14306
29 Mar 2013 10:08 PM
I live in America, and I can barely let my brother touch my stuff so there is no way I could live in a communist country.
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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 10:09 PM
Especially when the communist economic system is voluntary (Anarcho-Communism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Voluntaryism) this quality in product skyrockets as well as the overall economy, see the Spanish Anarchists of the Spanish Civil War era.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 10:10 PM
"OH YEAH GUYS I AGREE LETS GO MOVE TO A COMMUNIST COUNTRY AND LOOSE MOST OF OUR RIGHTS! AND BE A SLAVE OF THE LEADER!!!!!! WHOOOO COMMUNISM IS STUPID! AND CAPITALISIM IS GREAT!"

Shut up and stop trying to be a fake I-tie. Learn about politics and actually learn about each economic style before you start calling one bad and the other good. You're a damn parrot just repeating what idiots have told you, these same idiots also don't know what they're talking about.

And Super, that's not how communism works. You're taking it too literally.
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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 10:10 PM
@Super

Communism doesn't reject the idea of personal property per say, but rather the idea of private property such as the ownership of capital.

Where you can have a dog that is yours, or have a laptop that is yours, you cant own a factory and reap the advantages of the excess labor by which your employees essentially pay you to work.
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mrrecon119 is not online. mrrecon119
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 2132
29 Mar 2013 10:11 PM
It has been proven over and over again throughout history that communism works in theory, but not in practice.

you simply cannot just divide society into two classes, working and leadership.

besides, no matter how much work the working class puts in, unless it has some sort of skill involved, which you cannot mass train into a whole class of society, the state itself will not improve

no matter how much work one puts into it, you cannot turn a mud pie into an apple tart.

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superflarpflarp is not online. superflarpflarp
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 14306
29 Mar 2013 10:12 PM
So it is basically like, well say I owned a car company and I wouldn't share any profits I made besides paying my workers, in a communist country they would shut me down?
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ToxicXshooterZz is not online. ToxicXshooterZz
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 3671
29 Mar 2013 10:13 PM
Is this forum about which is best?

I am out.
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BlockManDoom is not online. BlockManDoom
Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 2097
29 Mar 2013 10:13 PM
"It has been proven over and over again throughout history that communism works in theory, but not in practice.

you simply cannot just divide society into two classes, working and leadership.

besides, no matter how much work the working class puts in, unless it has some sort of skill involved, which you cannot mass train into a whole class of society, the state itself will not improve

no matter how much work one puts into it, you cannot turn a mud pie into an apple tart."

Ok first, It worked under Lenin, but under Stalin and Mao that was not communism. China is economically capitalistic under ever sense, and Stalin's Communism was nothing like Lenin's.

The idea of Communism is to have no social classes, and everyone as an equal.

I don't even get your third point, or what you mean by it. We train people to do jobs already, and we have public schools which trains everyone how to read, write, etc.

And your analogy is irrelevant.
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PLOOBER33 is not online. PLOOBER33
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 7513
29 Mar 2013 10:15 PM
You are holding three assumptions:

One, that Communism divides society into two classes, you are confusing this with the marxist theory in which to view social problems as a result of class exploitation

Second, that there is a state involved at all, that there is something coercing people to do something, and that the process is not voluntary. Having Statist Communism always fails, I fall back to the example of the spanish anarchists who practiced voluntary communism and doubled the size of their economy in two years or so.

Third, that said communist society will not have resources to begin with. You don't turn mud pie into an apple tart, you turn flour, sugar, and apples into one. A communist society still can participate in a global economy for resource acquisition as well as personally farm/obtain resources from domestic sources.
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