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| 11 Jan 2013 10:20 AM |
HatHelper needs some competition. He has dominated the RTS gaming field ever since he created Conquerors. I understand that "Little Men" and a few others exist, but NONE of them, not even Conquerors, are worth five cents. Before you tell me that Conquerors has merit; make sure you've played a real RTS. Besides RTS games for the mobile platforms(kindle fire, ipad, iphone) Conquerors doesn't match up. Most games I've found for the mobile platforms are lacking just like Conquerors. What I'm saying is, don't compare Conquerors to them. I'm talking about a good, intense, PC RTS. Anything from the Age of Empires, Total War, or Command and Conquer series will do. A have quite a few others in my mind as well. Warcraft(or anything related), Total Annihilation(or anything derived), Starcraft, and Supreme Commander all come to mind. I think you get the idea. I also understand that the roblox engine has limits. And I understand that roblox can be played on mobile now. When it comes to graphics, Conquerors is as good as you can get(sadly :P). When it comes to the UI and strategic depth, it hasn't even scratched the surface. What I am proposing is that someone make an RTS that polishes up these two fields. A better, less confusing user interface(UI), and an in-depth counter system. To anyone who has played what I listed above(or anything like them) you shouldn't have a problem understanding what I want to achieve here. If anyone wants to do this, I will provide code and debugging to the developer. It would also NOT be my game it would be yours. I would create the game myself, but I can't build. My idea is also too demanding for roblox. To increase the games graphics quality and reduce lag we could also make the game 1v1. It is your idea; I don't care if it's midevil, modern, sci-fi, fantasy, or robot. I'll help if someone has the determination to do it.
If you're wondering why we can't just turn Conquerors into this dream game; it's because HatHelper will not listen to any kind of advice. I made another forum before this one where tons of people agreed with my ideas, but HatHelper wouldn't listen. This is probably because he's lazy and his game is still popular. |
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| 11 Jan 2013 10:27 AM |
HatHelper isn't "lazy".
Look, I don't like the guy, he has shown that he can be a jerk, but he certainly isn't lazy.
Conquerors used to be a decent game, or would have passed for a decent game in 2009.
But now that roblox has advanced its engine, I think HatHelper needs to modernize his game.
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| 11 Jan 2013 10:29 AM |
| You haven't messaged him have you? XD |
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| 11 Jan 2013 10:30 AM |
| Besides I would still like some more game variety for RTS games |
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zoomypie2
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| Joined: 25 Oct 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8050 |
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| 11 Jan 2013 12:13 PM |
Galactic Domination. You should know! |
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| 11 Jan 2013 12:21 PM |
| You dingbat XD you obviously haven't played any of the games I listed. I'm not talking about a field commander game. |
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| 11 Jan 2013 04:09 PM |
AHH! Age of Empires.
It was so long time since I heard that title...
I fell in love with that game when I was young. I believe it was 2nd edition or something and I miserably failed all time due to being too young but still being a heavy-obsessed player.
I strongly agree with you, just first 5 minutes of playing Conquerors, I left. Roblox needs another [BETTER] RTS with a creator who will listen for advice or suggestions and would never treat it as a crappy game. |
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| 11 Jan 2013 04:47 PM |
| YES!! I knew I would reach someone. Sadly I haven't acctually played Age of Empires :(. I know what's it's about, and I've watched a lot of game play off of youtube. I just bought the game yesterday, but my computer is too new :/. It really stinks. I wanted to play it SOOOOO badly. Even though it's an old game people still seem to love it. Well anyways. If you'd like to pick an idea for the game then we can start getting a dev team set up. When it comes to development, do you have any skills(building or scripting)? If not then you could take care of unit ideas, and how to set up the counter system. The game is always going to need people to play it if you don't want to do any devlopment at all. |
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| 15 Jan 2013 06:24 AM |
I agree too. I could make a new RTS, but I'm still considering the options, which includes;
Development Time Complexity Intuitiveness
Depending on these factors, I will judge if I want to make an RTS game or another.
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| 15 Jan 2013 06:49 AM |
| The amount of work it would take to make a good RTS on roblox is not a one person job. I seem to have one member for the dev team, but I still need more. |
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| 15 Jan 2013 06:50 AM |
One person projects are always better.
Surely working with one another without sufficient communication strength and highly varied skill levels would mean a disaster.
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| 15 Jan 2013 06:54 AM |
| That's why this thread is here. I mean to narrow down who to put on the team. Besides myself, a want 3 people. I need to post a reply on this thread to describe the specifications for someone who wants to join. I'll definitely do that soon. |
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| 19 Jan 2013 09:41 AM |
I definitely understand what you are trying to say here. I have in fact played several games in the AOE series as well as Supreme Commander, which is probably still my favourite RTS of all time. I have posted some suggestions to change the unit system into a counter system but I don't really think HH is willing to completely overhaul his unit system for that.
The UI is definitely a massive improvement over The Little Men (if you have ever played it you should know what I mean) but I can see why you would say that it is still lacking. More hotkeys would already go a long way though.
The counter system is the main concern, and also one of the things that are least likely to change in TC as it is. It would require the addition, removal and changing of many units and that's obviously a lot of work. It's funny how TLM actually tried to create a counter system. I have no idea if it works though since the game is far too bugged to play.
Graphically, there are of course limitations. I have never been one to care much for graphics though, and I even think the roblox graphics reinforce that "toy soldiers" feel.
One of the hardest problems is unit lag. It's a bit of an open question of wether this is a problem that is inherent to the roblox engine or if there is some way to fix it. I personally believe that since unit collisions seem to be the cause, adding a flocking algorithm could help. Regardless though, adding one would improve the way units move around.
The maps are also annoying me more and more lately. Some of them are horribly assymetric (koth on the great lakes is the worst, the hill spawns on the south part of the map and not, for example, on the small island in the centre.)
And then there is VIP. The longer I have it the more I hate it. I never liked the concept to begin with but you buy it anyway because you don't want to be at a disadvantage. Even things like increased movement speed make a huge difference. Now I just feel like it undermines all the victories I have. VIP has no place in a strategy game.
I myself have no experience with creating games on roblox though. I suppose I could try to learn things but the project you are suggesting here isn't an easy one. However if you ever need a critical thinker for an opinion on design decisions I am always willing to tell you what I think.
As for what this game would be like, I think modern or sci-fi would be a better choice for the setting. The reason I'm saying this is because I think melee units might be a lot more tricky to implement. With modern or sci-fi settings it's only natural that all units are ranged.
Also I believe 6 is the minimum number of players per server. So 3v3 seems more reasonable. (wether or not you do away with 2v2v2 is open for discussion I guess.)
I have recently talked to someone who is also recruiting for a similar project and looking for people who can script. His name is eaglephe. I'll send him a pm and point him to this thread. I don't think he really knows what direction he wants to take this but I recall him saying he can make models. If both of you are serious about this the results could be interesting. |
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| 19 Jan 2013 09:54 AM |
| ill try to help but im bad at both building and scripting. but i can learn :p |
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Mecablox
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| Joined: 16 Jul 2011 |
| Total Posts: 433 |
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| 21 Jan 2013 07:52 AM |
| I can build and script, and I'm looking for a project to work on. I'm mainly just messing around on Studio right now. I'm not a master with scripting though, but I should be able to get something to work. |
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Mecablox
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| Joined: 16 Jul 2011 |
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| 21 Jan 2013 08:23 AM |
| I will try to get some robot designs uploaded and upload all the different unit classes. I think ill use my current idea. It is a robot themed land conquest game with an in-depth counter system. Some people don't like land conquest idea, but it's the only way to prevent heavy defense battles which would take hours. If you can get resources from inside your base then there is no way to weaken your opponent to end the battle. The UI still needs work and I don't have a map. I will have to take care of the UI, but I will accept any map design that is symmetrical. |
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Mecablox
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| Joined: 16 Jul 2011 |
| Total Posts: 433 |
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| 21 Jan 2013 09:48 AM |
I can start designing some maps, link you the models. But one question... Most, probably all RTS games on Roblox are based off that idea that you control tiny little guys. But why not have people to control the size of you? You could ride your tank into battle. Once I get the idea of how much space they're gonna take up, I'll start building a map, or designing some characters, scripting, whatever. |
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| 21 Jan 2013 12:40 PM |
An economy that focuses on map control is vital to any RTS. That's one of the things previous RTS games on roblox did right. The Conquerors is basically all about map control. You mention a dual economy though, so there is no need to use the same system for both. The way you are wording it makes it sound like Supreme Commander, where mass requires you to control mass deposits, while energy can be produced anywhere.
I'm wondering if you will also make an economy based on resource flow like SupCom or if you'll make a more traditional stockpile economy. Or perhaps something in between like a stockpile system for mass (or metal or whatever you want to call it) and a resource flow system for energy. That would be more realistic I think.
As for unit scale, I recommend smaller units over larger ones. With smaller units the maps will also be smaller, which means players can move around more easily. It would also help players gain more of an overview. Finally, units need less detail if they are smaller. I suppose some people like larger units but personally I kind of like the "toy soldier" feel or smaller units.
I have concerns about the 1v1 idea though. Many people (myself included) like to team up with friends so the demand for team battles will be high. I also think the game would lack challenge this way (good oponents are hard to come by so having multiple enemies is one way to add chalenge for good players).
Another option would be to have 6 players per server like other games, and have different modes like 3v3 and a mode where there are three 1v1 battles going on at the same time. (this would require specially designed maps split in three parts of course) Unlimited units is a bad idea either way, especially given the current limitations. You will have to solve the unit lag problem if you want to have any hope for higher limits. There is only so much a server can handle.
I'm kind of curious though, how long have you played The Conquerors? I myself have played it for some time and I can honestly say it does not promote making an army for 60 minutes and marching on the enemy base.
Could you explain how the counter system will work? I'm kind of curious now. |
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| 21 Jan 2013 08:24 PM |
@Cubic
What is a counter system? Also when it comes to getting energy and minerals, I'd suggest a system like Starcraft II where minerals are limited but gas/fuel is not, however metals/minerals or whatever you want to call it, wouldn't be hard to come by. Also I played The Conquerors a few times. It really did challenge me, my opponent was actually a really good player. It ended when my artillery came around the corner and I brought some tanks and soldiers around the back from the mountain. It was actually a long battle, though.
Now for wrath! Now for ruin! AND THE RED DAWN! |
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HatHelper
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| Joined: 02 Mar 2009 |
| Total Posts: 46305 |
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| 22 Jan 2013 11:29 AM |
I did say I was recreating Age of Empires, in GUI form, where it would much less limiting, and I pretty much decide how much lag there is. But it would not compete very well with TC because this isn't a website full of 24yr pro RTSers. This is a website made up substantially of ~11yr olds. They cannot appreciate a legit RTS game, so I had to go with what would grab more people while still being fun. If you don't like it, I encourage you to make your own RTS game, since you seem to be a professional at it.
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HatHelper
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| Joined: 02 Mar 2009 |
| Total Posts: 46305 |
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| 22 Jan 2013 11:41 AM |
It took me a month of 2 hour days to just rescript the GUI/tool/units/buildings/gamescripts. Rescript, not script for the first time. I did not have to build the maps, or the units, and I knew what I was doing the whole time. Not many people are willing to put in 70 hours of scripting work, at least, on top of having to build everything from your imagination, on top of having everything work out perfectly(balance), on top having to deal with roblox limitations. Show some appreciation, it took a long time and effort to make The Conquerors. |
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| 22 Jan 2013 11:46 AM |
| HatHelper, your place isn't bad at all, it just needs to be modernized. |
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