| |
|
»
»
|
|
| |
Re: VIP Recruitment, Good or Bad?
|
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:23 PM |
TL;DR Version: Progress shouldn't be inhibited by the majority of people due to simple opinions, and you should open your minds to more things. VIP recruitment is not necessarily a bad thing, and almost all of us have done it in the past. If you want to know what I mean by that, then read the essay.
How long as VIP recruitment been around exactly? This is mostly in reference to TD, which seems to be the first clan to have successfully utilized the VIP model for massive recruitment. TD wasn’t necessarily the first clan to use this method. I am sure many other clans have offered VIP features for being a member, without knowing it. And to be perfectly honest, in some way, almost every single clan has done so. So, to me at least, it seems hypocritical to criticize TD for using VIP recruitment, when we have all done it as well? I will provide just a few examples: team changing GUIs requiring you to be in a specific group to change to a specific team, different and sometimes favorable spawning conditions, spawning near weapons or with more or better weapons or more types of weapons, having a wall to start a raid of, etc… Do you not see that there are all VIP features? (On ROBLOX, VIP does not mean “very important person” necessarily. Often times it can refer to those who have coughed up robux for special features, or have done something beneficial to the one who has offered this “shortcut”. And therefore, I conclude that VIP more appropriately means “very important persons” in this, our ROBLOX medium). Nevertheless, the VIP recruitment model for war clans, or as some of you call them, “VIP Clans”, has been used for a long time, and it’s only until now that people are causing a riot about the whole situation. Now I know that the discrimination towards TD has died down as of late, but that just makes this all the more better of a time to write this and introduce my opinion which as stemmed from reasoning and observation. I can conclude that the VIP clan recruitment model is nothing close to new, that the negative feelings towards it are not necessarily spawned from the quality of the clan formed, and that it is a perfectly legitimate type of recruitment, and therefore more people should be open to the idea. I have stated this before, that I am not one to hop onto the bandwagon, and I do not like the idea of conforming to popular beliefs. I look at things from multiple perspectives, and with this position, I will address this matter in the most formal manner that I can possibly address it in.
That’s enough for an introduction. The VIP clan recruitment model, or VIPCRM, which is what I will refer to it henceforth, has been around for a long, long time. I am going to guess that it has been around for as long as the traditional model of war clans has been around. For the longest time, those inside of a group have been given advantages at forts. This does not necessarily mean that the clan is a bad clan. However, it does imply that the fort is unfair. That is just the nature of the word. Perhaps other terms should be used, but that is not what this essay addresses. If your fort is weighted unfairly towards the defending side, then you are a VIP clan. Whether you know it or not, raiders are more likely to join your clan to gain those benefits if they enjoy your fort. Sure, group doors and group based team change GUIs have not been around forever. As soon as the “player:IsInGroup(GroupID)” method was released, I created a group door for my primary clan at the time, APN. This is a VIP feature, to be able to walk through any door that uses that method, to be able to click any button that uses that method, or to complete any action that uses that method. Any clan that has used those features, and any person who has used those features without criticizing them, while criticizing TD, would be considered a hypocrite in my eyes, even if it was unknowingly. My intention is not to insult you, but to enlighten you, and I do not view the word “hypocrite” as an insult, since its purpose for me is to sum up an adjective clause into one word, but I would say it can be seen as derogatory or offensive towards certain individuals (and to be honest, I would consider it insulting too, if it did not fit the person it was modifying).
TD isn’t a great clan, and we all know that. But is it from the VIPCRM? Let’s look at this, from multiple perspectives. Yes, it is true that many of the people who are recruited by the VIPCRM are not familiar with the clan world and could be considered “noobs” by most. (I really don’t like that word, so I quote it when I refer to it, and to me, it is similar to those who use profanity, which makes them appear that they have a limited vocabulary and are incapable of forming proper sentences, or that they are really angry people). However, many of us can be considered “noobs” in the rest of the clan world. (By a “noob”, I am referring to someone who stands out in the society that they have joined and don’t fit with the social or behavioral norms, such as a delete in a building game. A “newb” in the other hand, is not an offensive term, and should be given to those who are new to a community or game). Perhaps my own meanings I give to those words are not accepted by most, but for the sake of this argument and for all intents and purposes that follows or exists above, that is what I mean by those words. And so, we were all new ones, and those who joined TD are not “noobs” in other non-clan world parts of ROBLOX, but are “newbs” to the clan world. They have less experience in this world than we do, and we shouldn’t criticize them for it, but guide them, train them, nurture them. You know, what most HRs do to new recruits. Ostracizing them will not accomplish anything, and could only lead to the inhabiting of progress. Now, why is TD a bad clan per say? It was created by an inexperienced leader who found a loop hole in recruitment. It lacked experienced HRs at its upbringing, and it was much disorganized. As time went on, its leadership changed dramatically very often, and it still seems very volatile. Many efforts have been made to turn it into a decent clan, and even I offered to help out in the past. I probably seemed too demanding, as I was already saying the base needed serious renovations in my application. Many of these efforts have failed, unfortunately. TD is filled with tens of thousands of people. Whether or not you like it, it could potentially pass FEAR, and it is a war clan. The community does not decide which clans are war clans or not, the clan decides that. Therefore, if TD wants to be a war clan, then it is a war clan, however it was formed, and however terrible you might believe it to be. FEAR for the longest time was the “scum” of ROBLOX. When I first joined ROBLOX, and at the first place I went to, someone asked me if I was in FEAR. I had no idea what war clans were at the time, and I told him, “No.” He said something along the lines of, “good cause fear are noobs”. I wasn’t sure why at the time, but I was young, and so I thought he had a good reason to say that. I believed him for a time, that FEAR wasn’t so great. It still isn’t the greatest of clans, but I have that opinion about almost all clans. So FEAR is average. I am not entirely sure how FEAR was formed, but it was formed differently than TD was, or WIJ and VS.
This brings me to my next point; TD’s recruitment method wasn’t accepted for many reasons. I strongly believe that one of them lies in the fine details of the VIPCRM model. WIJ and VS grew to enormous sizes in very short times. It took WIJ a weekend to grow into a massive superclan. How was this accomplished? Although some people say they had great technology, I didn’t see it as very special. It just worked, and compared to the clan world, that was absolutely amazing… They had money for various reasons, decent and working technology that people seemed to like to use, and new styles of clan forts. This helped them reach the front page and fund ad programs. These were seen as war clans, and their leaders gained respect in the community quickly. I am sure many smaller clans and perhaps some larger ones didn’t like them, and I know for a fact that many clan world members raided their forts daily (only aiding in their recruitment goals and domination of the front page). And so, these clans gained many members who were familiar with the clan world, and had a lot of combat experience. This greatly improved their quality as compared to TD. Along with that, it’s hard to criticize yourself or your people sometimes; because of this, the chances that people would lash out at their recruitment methods were significantly reduced. And much of the clan world was now a part of these new clans that sprung up. Many on the Clans and Guilds forum are HRs of various clans, and so many of them did not join right away I am sure. However, all of these things combined garnered these new superclans a lot of respect in the clan world. TD did not get this sort of support. TD did not have fantastic bases as compared to the clan world, and even if they had bases as great as WIJ’s or VS’s when they sprung up, it would only be seen as average, as the standards were rising. It wouldn’t be very special. But they didn’t even have that, and they didn’t have very great HRs to back up the owner. I don’t know the specifics for VS, but I believe that owen was around for WIJ from the start, supporting SilentSwords. Where would we clan owners be without our HRs? “Where are my knights now, in this, our time of need?” (King Arthur, Some video game). I only heard the audio, so I don’t know if I heard it right, but it’s a quote that stuck with me. WIJ and VS were using the VIPCRM, but in a different, and arguably less direct way. I didn’t fight at WIJ’s base as much, but I know that VS Fort Vulcan was weighted rather heavily towards the defenders, even if it was quite a lot of fun to raid back then. I still remember when JGA1 offered me an HR position in VS because he thought I was a good commander. (It seemed like a lie, since I wasn’t leading openly, but perhaps he just thought the raiders were doing better than usual because of me, but I do owe a lot of the support in that battle to Valnier, one of the greatest clan commanders I have ever personally known). Maybe VS stilled needed more HRs, but now that we’re here, history shows us that they had just enough. TD also gained many members who were not from the clan world, and were “newbs” in our community. So, what I am saying, is that TD did not achieve the same level of respect because of how the VIPCRM works, and how they went about using it.
There is also another thought I have had about this whole situation. Perhaps it’s not only what I have mentioned, and those things I have not even realized yet, but something even deeper; something that you might not realize that you feel, or perhaps it is something that you do and would rather not mention. I honestly don’t know, as I am not a critic of TD, and for those that know me, I am one heck of a critic. I do not have much of a reason to criticize TD, besides the obvious, but there only people that need to hear that criticism, which is of the constructive variety, would be the TD HRs and leadership, and I don’t know enough about TD to speak on the matter. But their recruitment methods are not something that I can criticize, for I do not see anything inherently wrong with them. I have been observing this situation for a long time, but I can’t find a reason not to like it. However, this paragraph is meant to just point out one possible factor for these negative feelings. VIP recruitment on the scale that TD has used is something that just about none of the current clans, clan owners, and clan members can achieve alone. So, humor me here, perhaps there is a bit of envy or jealousy that is tied into all of this. I am not stating that this is the sole reason, or that every critic of the VIPCRM is a victim of these feelings, but I am allowing for the possibility of it. We have all been envious one time or another, besides perhaps those few that are perfectly and entirely without ‘sin’. It is something that we cannot have, but some of us would perhaps like to have. If you could get 80,000 members to join your clan with little effort, then why wouldn’t you?
As I have stated before, we have all used the VIPCRM in some way, shape, or form. I ask that you really look at the situation, and that you ask yourselves, “Why am I criticizing this clan for something that I might be doing, and is it wrong to do?” When I was working on a method of recruitment for APN, I had worked in a method of VIP recruitment in the middle, after we had gained more active members, we would build quality games of many genres and offer features for people who joined APN. Many of these would be combat games, and the features wouldn't be too important or game changing, but it was just something to help amplify the recruitment, to accompany it. Along with that, many of APN could hang out in these places and have some fun in their free time. (Also garnering more recruits). I had created this model long before TD sprung up. Before TD, the term “VIP clan” was non-existent, and the VIP method was not a bad thing. But now it is, because TD has given it a bad image. (I would like to state that I do not feel like TD is a horrid clan, it is just an unlucky clan, and the general consensus is that it is horrid). It is commonly stated and agreed upon that communism is good in theory, but executed very poorly. So, communism is a good thing? It’s viewed so negatively though, but it can be good and it is logical. Everyone works towards the success of the whole, without personal greed or desire. There are of course negatives, and people question the incentives. Well, for the human race, there aren't many, unless you value the survival and success of the group, rather than yourself. That’s about the only problem, and with proper teaching, you might be able to eliminate it. TD used the VIPCRM to an extreme, and something bad resulted out of it. Countries have used communism to the extreme, and something bad is the result. Communism can be good, regardless of the failures of those who have attempted to use it. And so, couldn't the VIPCRM be good? Many countries have some communistic ideas, even if they are not labeled as such. In the United States of America, sometimes being liberal can lead to some communistic views. (AKA, taxing the rich and giving to the poor, which is like Socialism, and Communism is often times seen as a stricter version of Socialism). And why am I saying that various countries, even capitalistic countries, have communism somewhere in their policy? Well, as I have stated a couple times before, almost all, if not all, war clans have some form of VIPCRM working currently. This little bit has gone unnoticed, and most people don’t associate it with the VIP methods used by TD, but I feel like they are one in the same. Government control is government control, and benefits to those who join your group are benefits to those who join your group, no matter what sort of “benefits” they may be.
In conclusion, I would like to ask you to ensure that you read everything that I have stated carefully before jumping to conclusions or criticizing me. I am here to clear up an issue, and bring to light my own thoughts, observations, and reasoning on the matter. If you don’t like it, then I cannot do anything about it. You’re not going to persuade me to think the same way as you. I am not going to discriminate against TD because of their recruitment methods, and I don’t feel like any war clan should have to suffer from that sort of prejudice just because they use “unorthodox” recruitment methods. Is there really that much harm in it? If the conditions were better suited, then I am sure that the method would not be seen so negatively. It is now commonly accepted as derogatory, and this will limit progress and further growth by clans. We should remove these stereotypes against recruitment methods, and allow the clan world to grow. Perhaps we will be given more features and a louder voice in the ROBLOX community if we can make up an even larger part of the community. Perhaps the fame many of you have earned in the clan world will eventually leap to other parts of ROBLOX. You all know me, you know my name, for those of you who are active forum members at least, and many of you know what I am as well. However, most of ROBLOX doesn't, and I am sure that most of ROBLOX doesn't know who many of you are. If you keep limiting progress, and not just with recruitment methods, then the clan world could be stuck like this for a long, long time. Don’t you want to be able to say that you there the generation of war clan members that, in a sense, took over the entire ROBLOX community with your culture? To spread your culture, is to conquer the minds of others.
I thank you for reading this, and if you have any comments, please place them. You can PM me if you wish, and I am deeply sorry if I offended anyone. I know this is a controversial matter, and if anyone disagrees with me, then please leave it at that. If you want to write an essay to counter mine, and then do so, post in on your own thread and message me the link. I do not feel like fighting about this, and that’s that. I am attempting to remove the stigma given to TD and their recruitment method, and perhaps allow for further development in various recruitment methods. I don’t know of any methods that are inherently negative, for it takes a pessimistic mind to see them as negative.
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me."
[Note: This essay was 3,242 words long, and grammar and spelling was checked. My last AP English Essay was 452 words long and I didn't check for spelling or grammar. I can write more freely and greater when it's something that relates to me, rather than an essay about a book, and that's all that means.] |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:24 PM |
This is a rather long essay. However, it is organized...
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
Sapun2000
|
  |
| Joined: 29 Aug 2009 |
| Total Posts: 6960 |
|
| |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:26 PM |
| I usually read your essays because they are well written, but this one is like double the usual length and I'm impatient. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:27 PM |
Well theres a funny thing.
Do you think C&G is going to read that long thing?
xD |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
b3njam1n
|
  |
| Joined: 05 Nov 2007 |
| Total Posts: 19389 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:28 PM |
>Group Kickout Idea >Kicks you out of your groups if you don't login for months. >Most VIP Groups and big, inactive groups BYE BYE
Problem Solved but people don't want to lose their big dead Trophy Collection clans. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:30 PM |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH4hDTmCIgo |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
Pryovin
|
  |
| Joined: 21 Jan 2010 |
| Total Posts: 31404 |
|
| |
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:37 PM |
Well, I expected the "TL;DR" stuff...
I also expected most people to ignore it. So I'll link it to those I know will take the time to read it and show respect.
For those that don't, I don't care. I enjoy writing, and I might one day become a writer. It's still on my list of possible careers. However, stories are not my strong point, so I might end up writing political books... :/
Ew...
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:39 PM |
Bad...
-[CORE Patron]- Join CORE! |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:43 PM |
This is highly controversial.
FEAR grew itself from VIPs and popular games at the start of its creation.
TD is going through a similar process.
Honestly, I would say it's good..but at the same time it's bad because it sort of ruins the reputation of the clan.
Recruitment should be more of a plan to recruit soldiers that are willing to fight and recognize the group as a clan more than a fan club /VIP club.
I know that VIP recruitment helps gain troops and makes the size of the group bigger, but the problem that large clans deal with is trying to sort out the fans and club members from the soldiers.
二把手[[ƑƩΛɌ 2iC]] BrianK2355: The C&G Azn Emperor of the East 恐惧 |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:46 PM |
It can be a good way to draw people in though.
Training always comes after recruitment, and most people you recruit don't remain active for a very long time. So it's not very different from normal recruitment, which might get very similar people. (Fans are a little different, but if the owner is active, the fans will love to be around the owner).
Essentially, it is a way to raid with over 1,000 people at a time... :p
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:49 PM |
im drawing the flag i surrender i tl;dr'd
shake shake shake senora shake 11 times work work work senora back in 2 my right and bababa daa |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:52 PM |
...
So you started reading? If that's true, then thanks for the effort, which I didn't expect from you... :/
I also put a TL;DR section, like usual.
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:52 PM |
| It's kind of like buying Youtube views, or buying Twitter followers. But some of the clans have gotten better. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
| |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:53 PM |
| That's because TD is one of the major examples of free VIP recruitment. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:54 PM |
Not to mention the largest that has used the method...
:/
And the one that is most criticized for it, etc...
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:54 PM |
i read the short version i agree
shake shake shake senora shake 11 times work work work senora back in 2 my right and bababa daa |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:54 PM |
VIP is bad, End of.
Even if your group is prosperous, You will earn no respect in the clan world.
~N!NJA~ |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
drdumke2
|
  |
| Joined: 22 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 6713 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:55 PM |
He does indeedly make an excellent point. Well done.
Indeed. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:55 PM |
But why don't you earn respect in the clan world?
It's because people "think" VIP is bad. If the lack of respect is the only negative, then I wouldn't hesitate to use this method.
And if you read the essay, you'd know that just about every single clan uses some form of VIP recruitment.
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
8SunTzu8
|
  |
| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8199 |
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:57 PM |
@drd, thanks.
I did my best to appeal to the other side, but a reputation means nothing when you're getting recruits from outside of the clan world. ;)
I knew it would be difficult to put together a solid argument for this sort of topic, but I found one that's at least as hard as a rock, if not harder.
"If you want to become a Developer or Innovator for CSA, contact me." |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:58 PM |
VIP recruitment is a nifty way to quickly get loads of members, but it has its downsides as well. Due to the increased recruitment, there will be an stampede of new and untrained players who need to be steered in the right direction. Without proper leadership, VIP clans will turn for the worse if they do not handle the mass recruitment in an orderly and effective way. The large amount of "noobs" that will reside in the group will give the group a bad reputation and make them seem weak and not worth other's time. Since most of the VIP clan owners today are not the greatest leaders, nor do they have stellar high ranks, their clans are just destined to fail.
"If you're not ready to die for it, put the word 'freedom' out of your vocabulary." -Malcolm X |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 09 Jan 2013 05:59 PM |
B A D td cant fite since 90% are vip wanters |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| |
|
|
| |
|
»
»
|
|
|
|
|