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Re: Well...now the republicans are doomed

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mineraal is not online. mineraal
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 400
03 Jan 2013 08:32 AM
Seeing that the republican congress did not decide on a plan for the fiscal cliff, you know what people are going to say? "Remember that time when the republicans rose taxes on everyone?". And if I know anything about this country, it's going to spell doom for them...for the next 20 years or so
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thepit44 is not online. thepit44
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 21143
03 Jan 2013 08:38 AM
They passed Obamas bill you idiot.
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 10:09 AM
Those spending cuts were going to be 1 trillion over a period of a decade...... That is not a lot of money to worry about.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
03 Jan 2013 10:12 AM
THis is actually a strategic advantage for the republicans. There was sure to be a tax increase, but there where able to make it as low as possible. Then when the next cliff comes next month, they can pressure the democrats into spending cuts.
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 10:17 AM
^If the Federal Reserve fixed the economy like you proclaimed they did then why would we have another cliff next month witch i think is actually about 1 year like it was last time.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
03 Jan 2013 10:25 AM
You seriously have no idea how the Fed works nor do you know what the fiscal cliff even is.
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 10:32 AM
No? Here is what the fiscal cliff is.:

See, the incoming crash dubbed as 'The Fiscal Cliff' is actually good for the economy if we decide to run over it and let those tax cuts expire. The Fiscal Cliff is not even the problem it is part of the solution. Due to the fact, that it is actually large enough to restore fiscal balance before a real disaster occurs. That disaster will may take the form of a dollar and/or sovereign debt crisis that will make this fiscal cliff look like an ant hill.

Now you may ask why is the media making such a big deal about it then instead of worrying about this disaster that will take place if they extend the tax cuts? Well, for the moment let's just really look at the situation at hand.

The fiscal cliff is just a legal trigger. That will trim the deficit with tax dollars rather then, paying our bills with debt witch is what both parties and the public both want at the end of the day right?

The fiscal cliff means the Federal Deficit will immediately be cut in half to approximately 643 billion instead of our overweight 1,1 trillion dollar deficit that we have gotten into, What is so terrible about that? I know that the costs of not driving over this hill, could arguably be the greatest threat our economy and monetary system has ever seen. Witch could be the last one we would ever see as the world would see us for what we actually are. Witch is being bankrupt.

This fiscal cliff was not actually created by the expiration of the Bush era, tax cuts. If you recall it was created by Congress. Last year when they "Congress" could not find ways to trim the deficit in exchange for raising the debt ceiling. When they failed to reach an agreement, Congress knew they had to raise the debt ceiling anyway. the result being the Budget Control Act of 2011, signed in August of that year, offered the pretense that they were dealing with our long-term fiscal crisis and not simply raising the debt ceiling with no strings attached.

This was not only done to appease House Republicans who threatened to vote against the entire debt increase. But also, to satisfy the bond rating agencies that had threatened a down-grade if Congress failed to act.

There is no doubt that the economists are assuring politicians that driving over the fiscal cliff will immediately bring on a recession. Costing the taxpayers billions of dollars.. Any politician who wants to get reelected will not allow this to happen.

As little as Congress gets done while they are in office there is no doubt they will reach a agreement again. As history tends to repeat itself for those who do not learn from it. That agreement will only replace the one we have now with one farther down the road. (Which they can easily dismantle before we actually reach the precipice.)

If we lack the courage to go over this fiscal cliff, why should anyone think we will be able to stomach going over the next one? Especially since every time we delay going over this cliff we simply increase its future size, making it that much harder to actually go over it.

There is no coincidence that we are facing 2 paths. If we go over this cliff we will be able to detox and recover. The other will make us face the reality later down the road that we are in a much worse predicament then Greece ever was/is. However i am afraid that we will choose to not detox but, instead overdose on the phony wealth we have.

The government should allow itself to fall over the cliff, and recover otherwise we shall continue walking in the footsteps of the Great Byzantine/Roman Empire.
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You said they fixed the economy if the fixed it wouldn't we have no economic problems? That would be what fixing the economy is.
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The0Arctic0Fox is not online. The0Arctic0Fox
Joined: 08 May 2012
Total Posts: 2861
03 Jan 2013 11:36 AM
>This is actually a strategic advantage for the republicans.

TACTICS, COMRADE, TACTICS!
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mineraal is not online. mineraal
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 400
03 Jan 2013 01:10 PM
"They passed Obamas bill you idiot"

Well, that's a first.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
03 Jan 2013 02:39 PM
You said they fixed the economy if they fixed it wouldn't we have no economic problems? That would be what fixing the economy is.
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Are you insinuating I said that the economy was fixed? Either you are deranged or went into a parallel universe. The Federal Reserve has prevented the country from going into a depression, but has not stopped a recession. The Fed prevented the economy from getting worse but there are many more things to come. What congress just passed is another step. The next one will be about spending and the debt ceiling. Who knows what will happen in the next month. The gains that the Stock Market gained over the past few days could plummet and crash because of the upcoming issues.
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 02:53 PM
"Are you insinuating I said that the economy was fixed? Either you are deranged or went into a parallel universe."

Saying "They fixed it." institutes your saying they fixed the economy.

" The Federal Reserve has prevented the country from going into a depression, but has not stopped a recession."

You can not print yourself out of this. All it has done is made the problem much much worse and moved the depression further down the road that is hardly preventing it. All it has done is preventing it from getting fixed.

"The Fed prevented the economy from getting worse but there are many more things to come."

I would not say they prevented anything at all. Instead of taking the medicine they continue to let this bubble in the bond market grow witch is quite frankly why they have the interest rate so low. So they do not pop the bubble they have created.

"The next one will be about spending and the debt ceiling."

We just got over the debt ceiling 2 years ago why would we go back to it. I am pretty sure we are not going to cut spending if anything we have increased our spending with Obamacare and the people who have quit looking for work and just decided to go on welfare. Obama's for every 42 dollars raised in tax revenue there will be 1 dollar cut clearly shows they have no interest in cutting the spending.

"Who knows what will happen in the next month. The gains that the Stock Market gained over the past few days could plummet and crash because of the upcoming issues."

I would say for next month that gold will rise back up to 1,700 USD as it is at 1,664.36 i would say the chances of it rising is not unlikely.

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RubiksCubix is not online. RubiksCubix
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4243
03 Jan 2013 02:58 PM
The fiscal deal was passed! The democrats wanted tax increases for everyone (and every business) earning over 250,000, the republicans wanted no tax increases.

So, an over $450,000 earning tax increase was the deal.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
03 Jan 2013 03:20 PM


Saying "They fixed it." institutes your saying they fixed the economy.
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You just ignored what I just said. I never said they fixed it. Ever. I said they prevented a depression.


You can not print yourself out of this. All it has done is made the problem much much worse and moved the depression further down the road that is hardly preventing it. All it has done is preventing it from getting fixed.
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Actually you can. The money that bailout those companies will be paid off and given back to the fed. Once the fed has the money back, it destroys all that money via shredding. All it has done is made the situation better. Its going to be a bumpy ride, but things are getting better and have gotten better since 2008.



I would not say they prevented anything at all. Instead of taking the medicine they continue to let this bubble in the bond market grow witch is quite frankly why they have the interest rate so low. So they do not pop the bubble they have created.
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They prevented it. Quit denying the facts. Go to Wall Street and do what I did; get the facts.


We just got over the debt ceiling 2 years ago why would we go back to it. I am pretty sure we are not going to cut spending if anything we have increased our spending with Obamacare and the people who have quit looking for work and just decided to go on welfare. Obama's for every 42 dollars raised in tax revenue there will be 1 dollar cut clearly shows they have no interest in cutting the spending.
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Next month is another debt ceiling because we are getting back to that hight again.


I would say for next month that gold will rise back up to 1,700 USD as it is at 1,664.36 i would say the chances of it rising is not unlikely.
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You realize the rise of gold is just a marketing scheme. It doesn't mean anything. And gold doesn't do anything but sit in safes.
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Lindershi is not online. Lindershi
Joined: 21 May 2011
Total Posts: 943
03 Jan 2013 06:08 PM
Well that escalated quickly...

Probably an alt
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 07:12 PM
"You just ignored what I just said. I never said they fixed it. Ever. I said they prevented a depression."

Actually i did not. You said on quote. "

"Actually you can. The money that bailout those companies will be paid off and given back to the fed. Once the fed has the money back, it destroys all that money via shredding. All it has done is made the situation better. Its going to be a bumpy ride, but things are getting better and have gotten better since 2008."

"We have some serious structural problems underlining the U.S. economy and we can not solve them till we understand them. As a nation we have, borrowed and spent our way into a gigantic ditch.

We are not going to get out of the ditch by digging it deeper. We have to reverse the mistakes of the past not repeat them. Government stimulus will never grow this economy. It will never create jobs. It is the equivalent of trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.

We have to understand that the Housing bubble, The Financial Crisis of 2008 2 events that i predicted and warned about. Were the consequences of government stimulus.

We stimulated our way into this problem we are not going to stimulate our way out. In fact the stimulus is actually a scenative. The stimulus is preventing the free market, from unraveling the problem.

That years of bad monetary and fiscal policy have created. We do not need more spending we need the opposite of spending. We need under consumption. What the economy lacks is savings, investment, production and if we try to preserve the jobs of this bubbled economy.

With more reckless money printing in borrowing and government spending. All we are going to accomplish is preventing a Reconstruction that we need and preventing more productive jobs from ever coming into existence." -Peter Schiff's Congressional Testimony

"They prevented it. Quit denying the facts. Go to Wall Street and do what I did; get the facts."

See the above.

"Next month is another debt ceiling because we are getting back to that hight again."

Yet we are on our way back? All we have succeeded in doing was fighting off the hand of the free market and increasing our debt.

"You realize the rise of gold is just a marketing scheme. It doesn't mean anything. And gold doesn't do anything but sit in safes."

Gold is a safe heaven from inflated economies. Witch is why i say it should go up.

"You just ignored what I just said. I never said they fixed it. Ever. I said they prevented a depression."

Actually i did not. I was questioning you on how they somehow prevented anything. As Peter Schiff said "We are not going to get out of the ditch by digging it deeper. We have to reverse the mistakes of the past not repeat them." yet we keep trying QE we started with QE back in the Great Depression under hoover and look how good we did. It took a war to get us back to normal. Yet you want to repeat his policies 'witch the fed is doing with QE3'. Until we raise interest rates and get our government out of the economy we will just be waiting for the next fiscal cliff.
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 07:39 PM
I responded to the first one twice whoops. Disregard the first statement when i did not fill in the quote.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
03 Jan 2013 08:10 PM


Actually i did not. You said on quote. "

"Actually you can. The money that bailout those companies will be paid off and given back to the fed. Once the fed has the money back, it destroys all that money via shredding. All it has done is made the situation better. Its going to be a bumpy ride, but things are getting better and have gotten better since 2008."
---
Never said fix.


We have some serious structural problems underlining the U.S. economy and we can not solve them till we understand them. As a nation we have, borrowed and spent our way into a gigantic ditch.
---
Not as a nation. What has borrowed and spend our way into a giant ditch was the government. The people are ready to get the economy going again, the government just needs to get its act together. We might have already if the President showed leadership, but he still isn;t even after being reelected.

We are not going to get out of the ditch by digging it deeper. We have to reverse the mistakes of the past not repeat them. Government stimulus will never grow this economy. It will never create jobs. It is the equivalent of trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it.
----
Finally, we found some common ground. Government spending is not going to get the economy moving. What gets an economy going is production of goods and services. the most efficient way to do that through the Free Market, duh.

We have to understand that the Housing bubble, The Financial Crisis of 2008 2 events that i predicted and warned about. Were the consequences of government stimulus.We stimulated our way into this problem we are not going to stimulate our way out. In fact the stimulus is actually a scenative. The stimulus is preventing the free market, from unraveling the problem.
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My favorite part. The housing bubble.

-----

That years of bad monetary and fiscal policy have created. We do not need more spending we need the opposite of spending. We need under consumption. What the economy lacks is savings, investment, production and if we try to preserve the jobs of this bubbled economy.
------
Monetary policy is all about investing. Not spending at all. George W Bush started this mess by going off from monetary policy. If you listened to Milton Friedman, you can truly understand what monetary policy is.


With more reckless money printing in borrowing and government spending. All we are going to accomplish is preventing a Reconstruction that we need and preventing more productive jobs from ever coming into existence." -Peter Schiff's Congressional Testimony
-----
This is Keynesian economics, not monetary policy. Keynesian economics has never been policy well known for economic growth because it simply does not do that.

"They prevented it. Quit denying the facts. Go to Wall Street and do what I did; get the facts."

See the above.
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The fed has done its part in getting the economy back on track, now we are waiting for the government to do its part. Ironically, your statements only show what the government is doing thats wrong, not the Fed. The Fed did the right thing.


Yet we are on our way back? All we have succeeded in doing was fighting off the hand of the free market and increasing our debt.
-----
Yup. Why? the President is not a leader and cannot find compromises with the opposing party.

"You realize the rise of gold is just a marketing scheme. It doesn't mean anything. And gold doesn't do anything but sit in safes."

Gold is a safe heaven from inflated economies. Witch is why i say it should go up.
-----
Then you find more and more gold. Then the rate in finding new gold mines stops. Then the Gold supply becomes static which will ultimately lead to economic collapse. If you notice, not one world economy has based its currency on gold in this modern age.

Infact, we are moving off from paper now and converting to electronic money. Credit Cards on your iPhone. Unthinkable 6 years ago.


Actually i did not.
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You did

I was questioning you on how they somehow prevented anything. As Peter Schiff said "We are not going to get out of the ditch by digging it deeper. We have to reverse the mistakes of the past not repeat them." yet we keep trying QE we started with QE back in the Great Depression under hoover and look how good we did. It took a war to get us back to normal. Yet you want to repeat his policies 'witch the fed is doing with QE3'. Until we raise interest rates and get our government out of the economy we will just be waiting for the next fiscal cliff.
----
You haven;t read your history. Hoover did nothing during the great depression. He expected the economy to help itself. When Roosevelt came in he closed down the banks for several days to calm things down. Then he introduced the New Deal to get people some jobs.
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gamert7 is not online. gamert7
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 4986
03 Jan 2013 08:33 PM
"Not as a nation. What has borrowed and spend our way into a giant ditch was the government. The people are ready to get the economy going again, the government just needs to get its act together. We might have already if the President showed leadership, but he still isn;t even after being reelected."

I agree the government has borrowed and spent itself into a giant ditch. If we act the way we did during the 1920s depression 'before the great depression' we will be able to fix this if not then we are done.

"Finally, we found some common ground. Government spending is not going to get the economy moving. What gets an economy going is production of goods and services. the most efficient way to do that through the Free Market, duh."

Again i agree if we stop all this spending we may get somewhere. But, to get a production of goods we will need to get rid of useless regulations. Example: Somebody got fined 15,000 USD for hiring to many people.

"Monetary policy is all about investing. Not spending at all. George W Bush started this mess by going off from monetary policy. If you listened to Milton Friedman, you can truly understand what monetary policy is."

Interesting i will check him out.

"This is Keynesian economics, not monetary policy. Keynesian economics has never been policy well known for economic growth because it simply does not do that."

I know this. I also do not support Keynesian economics the Europeans tried it look how far it took them. the amount of stimulus and government intervention at least in Greece should be obvious. So why would we follow this model? It makes no sense.

"You haven;t read your history. Hoover did nothing during the great depression. He expected the economy to help itself."

Actually he did exactly what the kensyian economic theory said to do. Stimulate the economy.: http://dailybail.com/home/radio-address-hoover-announces-his-1931-stimulus-plan.html

"hen Roosevelt came in he closed down the banks for several days to calm things down. Then he introduced the New Deal to get people some jobs."

Roosevelt was just like hoover except bigger. He was a expansion of Hoover. He was Hoovers 2nd Presidency. It took a war to get us back on our feet which shows how great this economic theory was.
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