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Re: what i think of the new vac acceptance guide thingy

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LordVydrak is not online. LordVydrak
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 28831
21 Dec 2012 04:49 PM
i honestly don't mean to criticize the empire itself, this is mostly directed at those whom wrote it and reviewed it because to be completely honest with you; it's full of crap and i don't know how you could possibly let people into the army core under these terms.

before i start for those who want to read the actual vac acceptance guide (new) follow this link: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=83710657

alright firstly, i noticed you got rid of the 30/10 ratio thing, and replaced it with 6 questions. isn't combat supposed to be one of the primary traits of a vaktovian? if so then why get rid of it? i completely understand that loyalty and intelligence is also needed amongst your ranks, but that's more of a sub-trait is it not?

secondly, i'm going to start criticizing each and every one of the questions you put on the guide and tell you why they aren't being productive

> 1) How did you come to know about the Empire?

how is this even relevant? like literally how is this going to change your final answer to this person? who cares how they knew about the empire, either way they're here to help you.

> 2) What groups are you in at the moment and what groups have you been in, in the past?

this question completely implies you're looking for people that are in sometype of prestigious division in another clan, or someone who's been a high rank in a foreign clan.

> 3) Have you ever been in a group or position that has been labeled hostile against Vaktovia?

how the hell do you expect to get an honest answer on this?

> 4) What do you think you can bring to the VAC to make it a better group for all Vaktovian's?

how do you expect someone to bring something to vac and make it a better group for all vaktovian's as one of the lowest ranks who can't even walk into their own base?

> 5) What is the fourth law that all members of the Empire must follow?

it seems like you ran out of questions or something, instead of asking about one law, ask about all of them if you truly want people to know about them.

> 6) Do you know, understand and remember all the laws located on the VAC description, and understand that any reward or punishment given to you is fair and understandable in agreement with the Law thread?

simple yes and no answer, how is this being productive.
---------------------------------

anyways, above was just my biased point of view of your new acceptance thread. i honestly thought it was going to be much more greater than the other one, but now that i compare them i realize that this makes it so much easier for complete idiots to get in.

i'll debate this as long as you want.
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squidboi2 is not online. squidboi2
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 52336
21 Dec 2012 04:51 PM
I'd personally just want it to be open to the public.

But oh well.
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LordVydrak is not online. LordVydrak
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 28831
21 Dec 2012 04:52 PM
people are going to abuse that priveledge just as any other priveledge that was given to them before by the empire.
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StuntMike is not online. StuntMike
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 6026
21 Dec 2012 04:52 PM
Answering questions in order to enter a clan is a bad idea.
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LordVydrak is not online. LordVydrak
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 28831
21 Dec 2012 04:53 PM
stunt that's pretty much what i'm implying here.
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Reaven is not online. Reaven
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 9181
21 Dec 2012 04:53 PM
It sounds like a college application, which believe me I'm sick of.
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Lucario1611 is not online. Lucario1611
Joined: 14 May 2009
Total Posts: 7973
21 Dec 2012 04:54 PM
WIJ officer test is better than that and it's pretty much a "How good can you cover lies with pretty words?" kind of test.
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Ice1377 is not online. Ice1377
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 6432
21 Dec 2012 04:54 PM
I like your point of view.

I honestly dislike it quite a bit, as well, as it takes out the "challenge" of getting into VAC.
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LordVydrak is not online. LordVydrak
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 28831
21 Dec 2012 04:55 PM
luc

tests like these for officers are much better because they would actually make sense, however you'd still obviously need better questions than these.
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squidboi2 is not online. squidboi2
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 52336
21 Dec 2012 04:56 PM
'people are going to abuse that priveledge just as any other priveledge that was given to them before by the empire.'

Yes and the OO can deal with that now that we have next to none exploiters to kick around any longer.
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Lucario1611 is not online. Lucario1611
Joined: 14 May 2009
Total Posts: 7973
21 Dec 2012 04:59 PM
VAC should either have free acceptance or, if activity allows it, standing out in front of someone who can accept.
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Evess is not online. Evess
Joined: 27 May 2012
Total Posts: 25583
21 Dec 2012 05:00 PM
well said
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FredTheBandit is not online. FredTheBandit
Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 231
21 Dec 2012 05:11 PM
VAC is easier to join, but getting through VAC is much harder.


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trituse is not online. trituse
Joined: 03 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 15618
22 Dec 2012 12:25 PM
I think we should have enough with the questions, Alts can get in this way, and they will take up space, they can be worthless and spoil the chance of good soldiers getting into VAK.
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hunter7777 is not online. hunter7777
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 1002
22 Dec 2012 01:03 PM
You're missing a huge part in the overall aim and role of the new acceptance system.

First off, ability in combat is not valued above intellectual competence. We can train and discipline you to become a better fighter. If you're only good at fighting and aren't smart enough to know our rules, behave well, and live up to our standards. We're not going to waste our time disciplining you.

Secondly, I'd like to address your criticism on the questions. I agree with you to some extent that there are better questions to ask. However, many of the questions fulfill their purpose. The first one for example:
> 1) How did you come to know about the Empire?
Though it's purpose is not an immediate answer, the officers are revising some knowledge you've inadvertently divulged. (Usage of proper grammar should be typical. In addition to the customary, "sir" or "ma'am" thrown into your letter.)

> 2) What groups are you in at the moment and what groups have you been in, in the past?
Again, there's an overlooked purpose here. We're not simply looking for prestige, we're interested in your commitments to other groups. How is your activity in them going to affect your career with us.

> 3) Have you ever been in a group or position that has been labeled hostile against Vaktovia?
As I said before, there could be better questions. But, I think honesty is a good trait to demonstrate to your superiors.

> 4) What do you think you can bring to the VAC to make it a better group for all Vaktovian's?
This is a long-term question, meaning, if you are allowed to serve with us, can you tell us some of your skills and what benefits you can bring to our group. (Building, fighting, scripting, and other proficient abilities you possess.)

> 5) What is the fourth law that all members of the Empire must follow?
If you copy and paste the answer, you will be laughed at and then declined.

> 6) Do you know, understand and remember all the laws located on the VAC description, and understand that any reward or punishment given to you is fair and understandable in agreement with the Law thread?
If you agree to this, it means you are willing to accept penalty for any transgression against us and that you will not burst into an outrage. It legitimizes the aspect that we will welcome you but, you must behave and if not, it is your fault for being exiled, suspended, demoted, or any other form of punishment.

The new system is not inefficient in delineating the competent from the inept. In my opinion, it is much better than simply, "Kill 30 individual people with a team of 6 others to back you up. Do not die more than 10 times". I am positive it is better than letting just anyone join, as well. The bonus is that we have more members following a higher standard of integrity than before.
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LordVydrak is not online. LordVydrak
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 28831
22 Dec 2012 02:58 PM
I'll be honest here, I can see where you're coming from but I still think you're full of crap, allow me to adress my reasoning below.

"Though it's purpose is not an immediate answer, the officers are revising some knowledge you've inadvertently divulged. (Usage of proper grammar should be typical. In addition to the customary, "sir" or "ma'am" thrown into your letter.)"

I think we can both agree that your overall statement implies this question is completely useless, if you judge it from my point of view and perspective. This 'customary respect' is simply a supplementive idea of yours which can be added to the 'real deal' in a question that'll actually benefit one, rather than something that asks about one's past which can easily be framed.

"Again, there's an overlooked purpose here. We're not simply looking for prestige, we're interested in your commitments to other groups. How is your activity in them going to affect your career with us."

I can see where you're coming from, however people don't usually make commitments to all of their groups. What I'm trying to say is, just because they didn't make a commitment to their other group doesn't mean they won't make one to the Empire. They shall choose what is more important to them, which in my opinion would/should probably be the Empire.

"As I said before, there could be better questions. But, I think honesty is a good trait to demonstrate to your superiors."

It isn't, because as I said before everyone shall take advantage of it when your 'superiors' won't even recognize it. Useless question in my point of view.

"This is a long-term question, meaning, if you are allowed to serve with us, can you tell us some of your skills and what benefits you can bring to our group. (Building, fighting, scripting, and other proficient abilities you possess.)"

This is linked to the question above, people will lie to take advantage of you easily. People in the Army Core aren't recognized enough to be compensated for their magnificent work. Trust me if I post you chatlogs via Steam of all the Officers that find the Army Core to be a bunch of useless idiots you'd be astonished, because I've certainly enjoyed my time debating the topic with them.

"If you copy and paste the answer, you will be laughed at and then declined."

Hopefully your assumption will actually turn into a fact.

"If you agree to this, it means you are willing to accept penalty for any transgression against us and that you will not burst into an outrage. It legitimizes the aspect that we will welcome you but, you must behave and if not, it is your fault for being exiled, suspended, demoted, or any other form of punishment."

How the hell do you expect someone to not burst into an outrage once they're exiled? Think about all those people who are going to get either framed or exiled out of hatred/jealousy by an Officer which I've certainly experienced before and know it happens, especially to those who agreed to these terms. There is no appeal system which you certainly need to set up to maintain order within the Army Core, it's pretty much just 'if i decide to exile you, you can't say anything; you're out'.

"The new system is not inefficient in delineating the competent from the inept. In my opinion, it is much better than simply, "Kill 30 individual people with a team of 6 others to back you up. Do not die more than 10 times". I am positive it is better than letting just anyone join, as well. The bonus is that we have more members following a higher standard of integrity than before. "

I acknowledge your opinion, however I believe that a simple questionnaire in this case would be unreliable and useless seeing that many will take advantage of it. I believe it would be more productive to set up one training place made by either Vaktus or any other Vaktovian whom excels in building and Scripting and add it to the Private Server of the Vaktovian Army Corps. Trainings will constantly be held there by different Officers, however they will refer to the same training procedure (have someone make it) just as everybody else.

To prove that one passed the training, he or she shall be given a Badge. The training must consist of numerous traits which will carve their Vaktovian career. Once completing the training, they must obtain a 30/10 ratio at the Swampy Moon Outpost and they're set.

I'm willing to debate this with you as long as you wish, I am pleasntly enjoying my time.
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LordVydrak is not online. LordVydrak
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 28831
22 Dec 2012 10:07 PM
I'm hoping I can get a response from you sometime soon, dear friend.
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hunter7777 is not online. hunter7777
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 1002
28 Dec 2012 07:17 PM
The problem is that you're more prepared to spend time criticizing than putting thought and action into establishing a better system. It is because of that and the matter of your intention being to debate instead of providing a solution that I wont be continuing on this.
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