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Re: Those who make over 1,000,000 in the U.S...

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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
05 Nov 2012 06:41 PM
Pay an average income tax rate of 24.6
The average income tax rate of someone in the middle class is around 8.8, although numbers vary few from a little over 9 and vice versa.
Numbers are from the IRS for recent years.

Now let's average out those numbers.
According to several sources such as the U.S census Bureau, say that the average income for the middle class is between 50,000 and 90,000.
So reasonable number would be 75,000.
(75,000/100)*9=6,750
(1,000,000/100)*24=240,000
240,000/6,750=35.556

Now can someone please explain to be how raising taxes on the rich is suppose to be fair?
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
05 Nov 2012 06:46 PM
But I suppose the people who think raising taxes have already gone into affect in France, as they hack away at the rich's income so that they can only receive 25cents on the dollar they earned.
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TaslemGuy is not online. TaslemGuy
Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 12174
05 Nov 2012 07:27 PM
>Pay an average income tax rate of 24.6
Source?

Romney, for instance, paid 13.9%.

-Source from FactCheck: "Does Romney Pay a Lower Rate in Taxes Than You?"
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
05 Nov 2012 08:12 PM
I said the source was the IRS, and it's the average income tax.
Also 13.9= more than the average middle class citizens btw.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
05 Nov 2012 08:18 PM
Romney, for instance, paid 13.9%.
_____
He also gives several million dollars of his money to charity each year, which is tax deductible. Perhaps that explains his low rate?
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TaslemGuy is not online. TaslemGuy
Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 12174
05 Nov 2012 08:19 PM
Okay, but here's my point:

The tax rate for the rich is supposed to be higher. Yet... it isn't. Romney has a tax rate of about 15%, which is way less than what it should be at about 25%.

Raising taxes on the rich should put their tax rates where they are supposed to be right now, as opposed to what they actually end up paying.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
05 Nov 2012 08:20 PM
ITT: people not knowing the difference between capital gains and income taxes
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
05 Nov 2012 08:21 PM
@Taslem the total tax paid is also calculated at the end of the year and use to determine the total tax rate.
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TaslemGuy is not online. TaslemGuy
Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 12174
05 Nov 2012 08:21 PM
@Avogadro

Donations (about 15% of his yearly income over the past few years) reduced his tax rate, but not that much. It would be about 16%ish if he hadn't.
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Laurisreinho is not online. Laurisreinho
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Total Posts: 6914
06 Nov 2012 03:34 AM
agreed, one rich guy average pays 35 people taxes
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
06 Nov 2012 08:43 AM
And then there's the difference between capital gains and income taxes. Most rich people pay income taxes; Mitt Romney pays capital gains taxes.
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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 10:37 AM
there's a difference between

just being able to afford food for the family and rolling in your high gas guzzling Bentley with your mansion.
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
06 Nov 2012 01:13 PM
@Xc Most of them have worked hard for their money, should we now demonize success?
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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 01:14 PM
"Most of them have worked hard for their money"

Then giving me one example would be a piece of cake!
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
06 Nov 2012 01:16 PM
@Xc a popular one would be Steve Jobs
More you say!
Ursula Burns
Howard Schultz (starbucks creator)

I could give you more but there is no point in redundancy.
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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 01:17 PM
"a popular one would be Steve Jobs"

I didn't ask for people who were rich, I asked for examples of people who worked hard to be rich. You need to explain how they worked hard for their money.

And for the record, Steve's company is still going strong even though he's dead.
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
06 Nov 2012 01:19 PM
By investing, innovating, and long hours of business.
You act as if it is easy to become rich.
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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 01:20 PM
"By investing, innovating, and long hours of business."

...with more detail and examples.

"You act as if it is easy to become rich."

No, I don't, but I know my mother works her backside off - emotionally, mentally, and physically - and she's not rich.
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TaslemGuy is not online. TaslemGuy
Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 12174
06 Nov 2012 01:21 PM
I don't know how most people get there...

...but the rich do very little work, especially for the amount of money they make.
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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 01:23 PM
There's a work:pay ratio.

Rich people may do more work, but not up to the point where they do 100x more work (and maybe even more). That's just unbelievable.
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
06 Nov 2012 01:24 PM
Li Ka-shing(one of the richest men in Asia) had to leave school in order to support his family, eventually he saved up enough to risk starting his own business in the production of plastic.
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
06 Nov 2012 01:26 PM
My god if I have to get into this argument again...

The workers choose to work for their amount of money, if they have a problem with how much they are getting, they can ask for a raise, if the owner says he doesn't want to pay the worker more he/she can quit.

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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 01:28 PM
"The workers choose to work for their amount of money, if they have a problem with how much they are getting, they can ask for a raise, if the owner says he doesn't want to pay the worker more he/she can quit."

But this isn't my argument.
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Vocalization is not online. Vocalization
Joined: 04 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1260
06 Nov 2012 01:28 PM
Your argument is that the owners should pay their workers more as they "do the work"
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XC6 is not online. XC6
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 9179
06 Nov 2012 01:30 PM
No, my argument was that rich people get a lot more value in terms of work:pay; sometimes over 100 times, which is ridiculous to say that rich is based purely of how hard someone is working. Nowhere did I state that middle class people aren't being paid enough.
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