iOpened
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| Joined: 31 Mar 2012 |
| Total Posts: 638 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 06:46 PM |
| For generating random numbers algorithm? |
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| 07 Oct 2012 06:51 PM |
Nope.
Randomness just doesn't exist. |
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myrkos
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| Joined: 06 Sep 2010 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 06:54 PM |
@myrkos $cat /dev/urandom
for teh lulz. |
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iOpened
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| Joined: 31 Mar 2012 |
| Total Posts: 638 |
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bioncl3
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| Joined: 03 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 274 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:01 PM |
Not really, but a good way to come close is to use the random method with the time as the seed.
-bio, apparently a scripter(OMG 127th post!) |
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myrkos
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| Joined: 06 Sep 2010 |
| Total Posts: 8072 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:01 PM |
| @necrobumpist, lol. that makes my laptop hot |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:05 PM |
| @myrkos, I did it while running tmux (similar to GNU screen), and boy did it mess things up. lul. |
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NVI
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| Joined: 11 Jan 2009 |
| Total Posts: 4744 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:09 PM |
| Define random. It's probably not what you expect at all. |
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nate890
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| Joined: 22 Nov 2008 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:11 PM |
| No, but we can generate numbers are are "seemingly" random. |
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iOpened
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| Joined: 31 Mar 2012 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:11 PM |
@NVI random |ˈrandəm| adjective 1 made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision: a random sample of 100 households. • Statistics governed by or involving equal chances for each item. • (of masonry) with stones of irregular size and shape. 2 informal odd, unusual, or unexpected: I find it impossible to not laugh at such a random guy. PHRASES at random without method or conscious decision: he opened the book at random. DERIVATIVES randomly adverb, randomness noun ORIGIN Middle English (in the sense ‘impetuous headlong rush’): from Old French randon ‘great speed,’ from randir ‘gallop,’ from a Germanic root shared by rand2. |
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nate890
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| Joined: 22 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 21686 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:11 PM |
| But if you're trying to generate seemingly random numbers, you can see this post in which I made: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=78989346 |
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iOpened
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| Joined: 31 Mar 2012 |
| Total Posts: 638 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:15 PM |
@Nate890 Thanks, that helped me. Also happy almost 20k posts. |
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Droban
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| Joined: 12 Aug 2012 |
| Total Posts: 157 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:23 PM |
The universe isn't even random. The universe is exact, calculable, and predetermined. It's like Conway's game of life. You can only see the next 'step,' but from that you can get the one after, so it's predetermined and exact just like Conway's game of life. This is not to say we can calculate it, but that it is able to be determined by calculations for the future.
So the universe isn't even random. Your actions aren't random. Nothing's random. There is no pure randomness. At all. Especially not in computers. But they're part of the whole system, stemming from a starting pattern, which is equal to how the grid may start in Conway's game of life. Computers are just as random as everything else, actually. Everything is equally random, because it's as random as the 'starting pattern.' And if that wasn't random, none of this is.
This means that we all must buy and wear about 50 hats, just so you know. |
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Quenty
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| Joined: 03 Sep 2009 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:45 PM |
If you argue the universe isn't random then there's no point in doing anything, blah blah blah... Then how did the initial pattern start, if nothing is random?
xD?
Anyway, presuming the universe is random (so we can have random numbers), you can get truly random numbers by taking input from nature or something, like having a mic with sound and basing your random number generator off of the data going into the mic. |
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lah30303
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| Joined: 15 Feb 2008 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 07:55 PM |
Theoretically if we could calculate the universe couldn't we, using knowledge of what we are about to do, do something different, therefore throwing off the "pattern" of the universe? Which would then make the "calculations" wrong therefore the universe can't be calculated?
Anyway for random numbers yea I'd do what Quenty said and just take data from the environment that a human can't easily read himself then throw it through an algorithm that a human can't easily redo in its head itself and you've got random enough numbers. |
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nate890
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| Joined: 22 Nov 2008 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:00 PM |
"you can get truly random numbers by taking input from nature or something"
Which is why we can use a time function (like os.time()/tick()) and produce seemingly random numbers. |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:08 PM |
| Define "random"? Completely unpredictable? There are almost assuredly some sources of this sort of information in the universe. But there isn't in mathematics; you can only get it via experimentation (time taken & current time is a great way to do that). |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:10 PM |
@nate890
I read online somewhere that someone took the number of dust particles in the air, divided it by the computer's time, and multiplied it by something else I forgot. Only problems: Requires external sensors |
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HaxHelper
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| Joined: 19 Dec 2009 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:13 PM |
| The problem with this kind of question is that it almost always turns into some kind of semi-philosophical discussion. |
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nate890
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| Joined: 22 Nov 2008 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:20 PM |
"I read online somewhere that someone took the number of dust particles in the air, divided it by the computer's time, and multiplied it by something else I forgot. Only problems: Requires external sensors"
That's an interesting way of doing it. Gives me an idea to make a simple circuit using a very precise light sensor module for instance and try to generate numbers based off that along with time. |
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Quenty
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| Joined: 03 Sep 2009 |
| Total Posts: 9316 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:45 PM |
I just thought of something: Quantum mechanics can (technically?) produce random values that really are random....
Quote from wikipedia:
"An important guide for making these choices is the correspondence principle, which states that the predictions of quantum mechanics reduce to those of classical mechanics when a system moves to higher energies or—equivalently—larger quantum numbers, i.e. whereas a single particle exhibits a degree of randomness, in systems incorporating millions of particles averaging takes over and, at the high energy limit, the statistical probability of random behaviour approaches zero."
Which not only disproves your guys statement that nothing in the universe is random, but also it is possible to have random numbers.
The weird thing about quantum mechanics is that it's predicting the probability of electrons being at a specific point... "Well, it's 'PROBABLY' there, but....
Anyway,... Random is right der... |
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nate890
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| Joined: 22 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 21686 |
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| 07 Oct 2012 08:54 PM |
"using a very precise light sensor module"
Of course that wouldn't always make things more random, as there is a 0 and 1, and the fact that light doesn't change very quickly _without_ interference. It was just an example... However, I'll see if I can find something. |
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