generic image
Processing...
  • Games
  • Catalog
  • Develop
  • Robux
  • Search in Players
  • Search in Games
  • Search in Catalog
  • Search in Groups
  • Search in Library
  • Log In
  • Sign Up
  • Games
  • Catalog
  • Develop
  • Robux
   
ROBLOX Forum » Game Creation and Development » Scripters
Home Search
 

Re: Is There Such Thing As Pure Randomness

Previous Thread :: Next Thread 
iOpened is not online. iOpened
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 638
07 Oct 2012 06:46 PM
For generating random numbers algorithm?
Report Abuse
MrgamesNwatch is not online. MrgamesNwatch
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Total Posts: 7729
07 Oct 2012 06:51 PM
No.
Report Abuse
JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
07 Oct 2012 06:51 PM
Nope.

Randomness just doesn't exist.
Report Abuse
myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
07 Oct 2012 06:52 PM
/dev/random
Report Abuse
NecroBumpist is not online. NecroBumpist
Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 4198
07 Oct 2012 06:54 PM
@myrkos
$cat /dev/urandom

for teh lulz.
Report Abuse
fremontboy is not online. fremontboy
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 807
07 Oct 2012 06:57 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
Report Abuse
iOpened is not online. iOpened
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 638
07 Oct 2012 06:59 PM
@Julien
How so.
Report Abuse
bioncl3 is not online. bioncl3
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 274
07 Oct 2012 07:01 PM
Not really, but a good way to come close is to use the random method with the time as the seed.

-bio, apparently a scripter(OMG 127th post!)
Report Abuse
myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
07 Oct 2012 07:01 PM
@necrobumpist, lol. that makes my laptop hot
Report Abuse
NecroBumpist is not online. NecroBumpist
Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 4198
07 Oct 2012 07:05 PM
@myrkos, I did it while running tmux (similar to GNU screen), and boy did it mess things up. lul.
Report Abuse
NVI is not online. NVI
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Total Posts: 4744
07 Oct 2012 07:09 PM
Define random. It's probably not what you expect at all.
Report Abuse
nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
07 Oct 2012 07:11 PM
No, but we can generate numbers are are "seemingly" random.
Report Abuse
iOpened is not online. iOpened
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 638
07 Oct 2012 07:11 PM
@NVI
random |ˈrandəm|
adjective
1 made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision: a random sample of 100 households.
• Statistics governed by or involving equal chances for each item.
• (of masonry) with stones of irregular size and shape.
2 informal odd, unusual, or unexpected: I find it impossible to not laugh at such a random guy.
PHRASES
at random without method or conscious decision: he opened the book at random.
DERIVATIVES
randomly adverb,
randomness noun
ORIGIN Middle English (in the sense ‘impetuous headlong rush’): from Old French randon ‘great speed,’ from randir ‘gallop,’ from a Germanic root shared by rand2.
Report Abuse
nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
07 Oct 2012 07:11 PM
But if you're trying to generate seemingly random numbers, you can see this post in which I made: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=78989346
Report Abuse
iOpened is not online. iOpened
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 638
07 Oct 2012 07:15 PM
@Nate890
Thanks, that helped me.
Also happy almost 20k posts.
Report Abuse
Droban is not online. Droban
Joined: 12 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 157
07 Oct 2012 07:23 PM
The universe isn't even random. The universe is exact, calculable, and predetermined. It's like Conway's game of life. You can only see the next 'step,' but from that you can get the one after, so it's predetermined and exact just like Conway's game of life. This is not to say we can calculate it, but that it is able to be determined by calculations for the future.

So the universe isn't even random. Your actions aren't random. Nothing's random. There is no pure randomness. At all. Especially not in computers. But they're part of the whole system, stemming from a starting pattern, which is equal to how the grid may start in Conway's game of life. Computers are just as random as everything else, actually. Everything is equally random, because it's as random as the 'starting pattern.' And if that wasn't random, none of this is.

This means that we all must buy and wear about 50 hats, just so you know.
Report Abuse
Quenty is not online. Quenty
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 9316
07 Oct 2012 07:45 PM
If you argue the universe isn't random then there's no point in doing anything, blah blah blah... Then how did the initial pattern start, if nothing is random?

xD?

Anyway, presuming the universe is random (so we can have random numbers), you can get truly random numbers by taking input from nature or something, like having a mic with sound and basing your random number generator off of the data going into the mic.
Report Abuse
lah30303 is not online. lah30303
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Total Posts: 10027
07 Oct 2012 07:55 PM
Theoretically if we could calculate the universe couldn't we, using knowledge of what we are about to do, do something different, therefore throwing off the "pattern" of the universe? Which would then make the "calculations" wrong therefore the universe can't be calculated?

Anyway for random numbers yea I'd do what Quenty said and just take data from the environment that a human can't easily read himself then throw it through an algorithm that a human can't easily redo in its head itself and you've got random enough numbers.
Report Abuse
nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
07 Oct 2012 08:00 PM
"you can get truly random numbers by taking input from nature or something"

Which is why we can use a time function (like os.time()/tick()) and produce seemingly random numbers.
Report Abuse
BlueTaslem is not online. BlueTaslem
Joined: 11 May 2008
Total Posts: 11060
07 Oct 2012 08:08 PM
Define "random"? Completely unpredictable? There are almost assuredly some sources of this sort of information in the universe. But there isn't in mathematics; you can only get it via experimentation (time taken & current time is a great way to do that).
Report Abuse
jordan4762 is not online. jordan4762
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 4116
07 Oct 2012 08:10 PM
@nate890

I read online somewhere that someone took the number of dust particles in the air, divided it by the computer's time, and multiplied it by something else I forgot. Only problems: Requires external sensors
Report Abuse
HaxHelper is not online. HaxHelper
Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 1208
07 Oct 2012 08:13 PM
The problem with this kind of question is that it almost always turns into some kind of semi-philosophical discussion.
Report Abuse
nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
07 Oct 2012 08:20 PM
"I read online somewhere that someone took the number of dust particles in the air, divided it by the computer's time, and multiplied it by something else I forgot. Only problems: Requires external sensors"

That's an interesting way of doing it. Gives me an idea to make a simple circuit using a very precise light sensor module for instance and try to generate numbers based off that along with time.
Report Abuse
Quenty is not online. Quenty
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 9316
07 Oct 2012 08:45 PM
I just thought of something: Quantum mechanics can (technically?) produce random values that really are random....

Quote from wikipedia:

"An important guide for making these choices is the correspondence principle, which states that the predictions of quantum mechanics reduce to those of classical mechanics when a system moves to higher energies or—equivalently—larger quantum numbers, i.e. whereas a single particle exhibits a degree of randomness, in systems incorporating millions of particles averaging takes over and, at the high energy limit, the statistical probability of random behaviour approaches zero."

Which not only disproves your guys statement that nothing in the universe is random, but also it is possible to have random numbers.

The weird thing about quantum mechanics is that it's predicting the probability of electrons being at a specific point... "Well, it's 'PROBABLY' there, but....

Anyway,... Random is right der...
Report Abuse
nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
07 Oct 2012 08:54 PM
"using a very precise light sensor module"

Of course that wouldn't always make things more random, as there is a 0 and 1, and the fact that light doesn't change very quickly _without_ interference. It was just an example... However, I'll see if I can find something.
Report Abuse
Previous Thread :: Next Thread 
Page 1 of 1
 
 
ROBLOX Forum » Game Creation and Development » Scripters
   
 
   
  • About Us
  • Jobs
  • Blog
  • Parents
  • Help
  • Terms
  • Privacy

©2017 Roblox Corporation. Roblox, the Roblox logo, Robux, Bloxy, and Powering Imagination are among our registered and unregistered trademarks in the U.S. and other countries.



Progress
Starting Roblox...
Connecting to Players...
R R

Roblox is now loading. Get ready to play!

R R

You're moments away from getting into the game!

Click here for help

Check Remember my choice and click Launch Application in the dialog box above to join games faster in the future!

Gameplay sponsored by:
Loading 0% - Starting game...
Get more with Builders Club! Join Builders Club
Choose Your Avatar
I have an account
generic image