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Re: I need clarification

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Techboy6601 is not online. Techboy6601
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 4914
05 Oct 2012 08:27 PM
...about local bricks.

Questions:
1. Will they be taken away?
2. If so, why are they being taken away?
3. Is there a date estimate to that happening?
4. What will replace them (if at all)?
5. What can we, as developers, do to keep our games playable?

Thanks for the feedback.
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ArceusInator is not online. ArceusInator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 30553
05 Oct 2012 08:30 PM
Doubt it. Too many games depend on them.

But I also doubt they'll do anything to make it easier to use them.
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Techboy6601 is not online. Techboy6601
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 4914
05 Oct 2012 08:34 PM
Meh. They're not exactly hard to use anyways.
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nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
05 Oct 2012 11:16 PM
Pretty sure that there are gears in the catalog that include the use of local bricks, so I don't think local brick functionality will be removed.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
06 Oct 2012 12:22 AM
"1. Will they be taken away?
2. If so, why are they being taken away?
3. Is there a date estimate to that happening?
4. What will replace them (if at all)?
5. What can we, as developers, do to keep our games playable?"

1) Yes
2) Because important people don't like them
3) Nope
4) Probably nothing
5) Yes, just don't use local parts. Most of the usage that I head people talking about for them is pretty hacky, and not the way you should be tackling the problem in the first place. For legitimate uses, no, there is nothing.
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Aerideyn is not online. Aerideyn
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 1882
06 Oct 2012 12:33 AM
Of course there is legitimate uses.

Just one, here you go:
A player places a Land mine, only players on his team can see it.
ie. the mine is made from local bricks.

What other ways can you possibly do that?
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Nytraulics is not online. Nytraulics
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 755
06 Oct 2012 12:33 AM
@stravant

What? There are plenty of people who rely on local parts for client viewmodels in first person weapons, taking away all the hacky tricks would only ruin some of the awesome things I've seen.

I don't understand why "important people" don't like them?
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nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
06 Oct 2012 12:46 AM
There are uses ;P. An awesome, implemented use I saw was in Gollygreg's Teem Combat game, where there are doors that only people on the team (that the door belongs to) can go through and the opposing team cannot go through (allowing for protection.)
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Nytraulics is not online. Nytraulics
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 755
06 Oct 2012 12:52 AM
"As far as local parts are concerned – this is something that we’d like to get away from. Our guiding vision for ROBLOX is that objects in ROBLOX act as you would expect them to in the real world, using physics. There’s no such thing as “local parts” in the real world. They also fight our network architecture – typically ROBLOX scripters don’t need to spend a lot of time thinking about what each client “sees” when they play the game: everyone sees everything. This simplifies a lot of game programming in ROBLOX. Today in ROBLOX, scripters use local parts as a last resort to accomplish some effect that you can’t get any other way. Our challenge is to make it easy to achieve these effects without this hack."



I think they need to go play some quake.
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nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
06 Oct 2012 12:56 AM
"There’s no such thing as “local parts” in the real world."

I would agree, but this isn't the real world.
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Techboy6601 is not online. Techboy6601
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 4914
06 Oct 2012 12:56 AM
"1) Yes
2) Because important people don't like them
3) Nope
4) Probably nothing
5) Yes, just don't use local parts. Most of the usage that I head people talking about for them is pretty hacky, and not the way you should be tackling the problem in the first place. For legitimate uses, no, there is nothing."

1. The reason you gave is inadequate. See #2.

2. That's hardly a reason to remove a feature.
It's like committing mass genocide because of what people believe in.

3. Not a good sign.

4. Also not a good sign.

5.
1) Single player games
2) Less server load
3) Special effects
4) Other ideas suggested
These are some of the ideas I came up with.

On a recent blog post ROBLOX mentioned that they usually didn't remove features unless they were a security/performance concern. For local parts, most people who manage to make them know the risks and understand the potential consequences. This feature should not be removed because there are very good ideas that are only possible with local parts implemented.



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Techboy6601 is not online. Techboy6601
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 4914
06 Oct 2012 12:58 AM
"There’s no such thing as “local parts” in the real world."

Dreams and your imagination.
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nate890 is not online. nate890
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 21686
06 Oct 2012 01:01 AM
The world isn't made out of lego, either.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
06 Oct 2012 01:03 AM
There's no point in arguing with me. I don't agree with the removal, I'm just answering the question.

And yes, there is no way to replicate some uses of it. You'll just have to deal with it.
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SN0X is not online. SN0X
Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 7277
06 Oct 2012 02:07 AM
I disagree with the "important people".

Local parts have many uses. I don't think I have to explain myself any further.

Just this.

Local parts have their uses...
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
06 Oct 2012 02:09 AM
"Just one, here you go:
A player places a Land mine, only players on his team can see it.
ie. the mine is made from local bricks."

In the real world, everyone can see mines. I know ROBLOX isn't the real world, but, still...
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SN0X is not online. SN0X
Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 7277
06 Oct 2012 02:18 AM
Wait actually, I thought of something more important to say.

You made this game for the users.

Now say if you removed this feature. Who would be happy?

0 users. About 25% development team. (Dev team estimate)

How many games would break?

A lot.

Is this hack/feature a security problem?

No. At the moment local parts are known to be very secure.

But what if you kept local parts?

The scripting community, who drive your game, would be VERY happy.
The majority of ROBLOX won't notice a thing and all their favourite games should still work.

What if you worked on local parts?

The scripting community would also be very happy.
The majority of ROBLOX would notice their favourite games running a little smoother.

---

Ok, so conclusion: only you "important people" want local parts removed, but us, the secret important people who actually pay for you and create your virtual world's games, all want them.

OK, in no offense whatsoever (although this might seem rude), why don't you make a dev version of ROBLOX, called DEVBLOX, where you all do what YOU want to it, add dynamic lighting because your computers can handle, add ropes & all those beta features, play around with corescripts and remove local parts and anything else you don't like, and have no rules? Sounds fun to me, just get passed the fact that it might sound a little offensive.
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BAUER102 is not online. BAUER102
Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 5936
06 Oct 2012 02:49 AM
SN0X nailed it.
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Prehistoricman is not online. Prehistoricman
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 12490
06 Oct 2012 03:43 AM
Stravant, if it isn't your idea that they should be removed, why don't you get a gang in the Roblox HQ and then a few days before they are to be removed roit the offices holding massive signs that say "If this was local, you wouldn't feel me hitting you with it!"

Why can't Roblox be more of a democracy between players and devs? We get little say in what happens. The blog user feedback things are nice but you aren't consulting the users on what they think of a feature.
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SN0X is not online. SN0X
Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 7277
06 Oct 2012 04:42 AM
"If this was local, you wouldn't feel me hitting you with it!"

LOL'D BIG TIME
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HatHelper is not online. HatHelper
Top 25 Poster
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 46305
06 Oct 2012 06:34 AM
What's the point of this? At least release a max part limit upgrade before removing local parts.
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su8 is not online. su8
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 6334
06 Oct 2012 06:35 AM
@HH

You shouldn't even need more parts.
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HatHelper is not online. HatHelper
Top 25 Poster
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 46305
06 Oct 2012 06:38 AM
With your logic:
Roblox doesn't need to make any more updates, release more items, or even have to log into the website. Just leave it as it is.
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su8 is not online. su8
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 6334
06 Oct 2012 06:40 AM
Not at all, now tell me why would you need more parts?
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0LED is not online. 0LED
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 224
06 Oct 2012 06:41 AM
What's the point of local parts?

Special Effects
Pseudo-"Render Settings"
Less load times
Less lag server sided
etc.

Clearly advantages outweigh disadvantages...

Disadvantages of local parts:
None that I can think of...
Possibly few security holes.

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