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| 29 Sep 2012 02:39 AM |
Ok, what are your opinions on them?
Fun? Boring? Tedious?
What would you like to see?
What would you not want to see?
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| 29 Sep 2012 04:16 AM |
Usually they can be slighty boring, I use to visit rpg's occasionally a while ago, though thats stopped.
They usually are all medival rpgs, would be nice to see a different scenario and a different time era. Maybe add a destoryed place or something as well. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 04:45 AM |
Alright, so basically, different time period.
Can you please elaborate it on many sub-levels such as combat, quest, and overall in-game item economies?
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| 29 Sep 2012 05:06 AM |
Though you meant Rp's :P didn't read it :/
Well i'd say put the rpg more into the future. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 05:11 AM |
Well, looking at the dwarven mechanics in skyrim, they look very different and very interesting. I would say that you could make something like that. Maybe add some sort of train scenario, maybe it's a boss or something.
Maybe this ancient race has made some button that distrots the world where they can create anything they wish to, and abolish anything they see in their way. Maybe you join the siege on such a place and destory the button or something. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 08:12 AM |
Alright, so interesting architecture.
I don't want ideas since I'm not making it, just a general discussion.
Maybe could people go in-depth to stuff like the combat and market/inventory systems? Such as merchants, inventories, banks, etc.
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| 29 Sep 2012 09:10 AM |
As much as architecture is important (And it is important), a majority of RPG creators lack a storyline aspect to their game. They forget that you pretty much have to be an author to fully *write* (Yes I said "write") a proper RPG using proper story structure.
And for the simplest of things too. Like, how hard is it to instead of having a quest saying:
"Kill 5 goblins!"
Add a simple few sentences to explain why you have to kill those goblins, how it will help the person, and possibly what the reward is:
"Hey, you! Oh thank you for finding me! I have a problem, see those goblins over there by the windmill? They attack anyone who comes near and we already have a few farmers hurt. You look like you can handle yourself in a fight, mind taking out a few of them, four or five just to decrease their numbers a bit? The farmers and I will be thankful, and we'll even throw in a few of our goods."
Ok so maybe not in a few sentences, but you get the point. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 09:38 AM |
So you're saying storyline makes a difference? I believe you too, especially with the quest descriptions and the main storyline.
However, what do you think of the general RPG's in-game markets (vendors, merchants) and inventories? Are they boring? Are they alright? Are prices too expensive? Are items too varied? Or are items just an upgrade from another inferior item (ie. Steel sword, wooden sword).
How about the combat? Most of the combat nowadays is just click click click. What do you think of this?
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:15 AM |
Well the in-game markets usually suck. Even more so with the dialog boxes. If I could I would script a haggling system based on how much you've done for the person, if they like you, and if you're in the same faction, but that's a little far-streched for my abilities.
Although I'm happy with my system at the moment, where the player is "talking" to the NPC with my custom GUI dialog boxes, and actually have to ask the vendor what they have to sell, or if they want to buy anything from the player. I really wanted to stress player-NPC communication to make it feel more like you're talking to a person.
As for combat, the content developer for Bethesda accurately said: "Fighting with chop-sticks".
Again, I would add chops, slashes, and stabs, all with different effectiveness depending on the weapon, or even key commands. But again, out-side my abilities.
However my weapons now are mostly upgrades from other weapons, but some do more damage to undead or magical enemies, so I made a very simple "weapon effectiveness" scale to add a little bit of strategy. |
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sam6175
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2008 |
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:22 AM |
Most roblox RPGS lack depth. There is nothing below what is found within the first 5 minutes of playing. Its all kill this, get some xp, level up, buy weapon, kill more, etc etc.
There is no ultimate goal or thing to work towards, and as you said before the story is severely lacking. Most of them lack any sort of inventory system, and shops are just weapons. They should not be called RPG's, they are more like LUFMG (Level up fight monsters game). |
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:23 AM |
So what you're saying for the markets thing is that, a relationships system? In where if you do stuff for that vendor/merchant, s/he gets a discount or more unlocked purchasable objects right?
I could think of an easy, simple but not that advanced version of this.
For the dialog thing.. I don't really understand it. What's the problem with GUI dialog boxes? lol. I mean, simply choosing from a list of options is, good enough right? If it's not, tell me ideas pl0x!11!
Combat? Only that? I was hoping for a little more diversity, haha!
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:24 AM |
@Sam; So, if you were in a position of making an RPG game, what would you do to improve the grinding found in many RPGs today?
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:30 AM |
Ha, Sam, you summed it up perfectly! I've been just calling them glorified monster hunts.
And Candy, essentially yes, this way players will always go back to the same vendor, establishing even more of a relationship with them.
And the dialog thing? Like those red, green and blue boxes? they're way *way* too limited. At most you can only have them say a sentence before it cuts off. And it just seems like an inefficient way for longer conversations. It's fine for short guides or somethinf like that, not much else though.
Oh and combat... Well, the key commands could make the player do certain moves past what I said. Disarm, interupt, power attack, and knock-down come to mind. The only thing that would be difficult is that if players could do it, the enemies would also have to do it. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:38 AM |
Hmm...
Seems grinding is a big problem, so how should I make the game NOT feel like a "kill-monster-level-up-kill-more-monsters" game? *If I were making a game.
No, I meant custom GUI dialogs. I don't know what you mean by limited, lol.
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aboy5643
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| Joined: 08 Oct 2010 |
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| 29 Sep 2012 11:31 AM |
Here are some key points to look for when making an RPG. All of the ones on Roblox right now quite frankly suck.
1. Make a main storyline. And develop it well!! There should be a reason for doing everything and there should be a guiding storyline that should lead to a distant end goal. Keep in mind that the story does not have to be finished upon initial release of the game. Just have the story progress far enough to where it can pause until you can crank out more content. Also consider making multiple main lines of the story that you can pick from or lines that branch into a web of different paths. Maybe different races start the story differently?
2. Add optional or side quests and stories. These should provide small bonuses to what you would get just from following the main storyline. They should also make sense and have a purpose and perhaps indirectly tie into the main story. Don't make it give any items or skills that are key to the plot.
3. Focus on setting. Your architectural style and geographical style should reflect the inhabitants, the weather, the time period, etc. If you are in a medieval village, make it look like that when creating buildings. Make sure the environment also makes sense with the location.
4. Keep in mind the scaling of opponents and weapons and armor. It's never good when a Lvl 1 sword takes 20 hits to kill a monster but a lvl 2 sword can one shot it. Make the monsters hit slightly more or in a different way and scale them SLOWLY. Don't rush through the levels to get to some infinite health boss.
5. Creatively make barriers to harder areas. And make sure that lower levels CANNOT reach these areas. Instead of a "level door" or teleporter, perhaps give people abilities they didn't have in the past and implement it uniquely. You could perhaps at later levels scale a wall into a new area or at a certain "prestige" level a guard would let you through. Or maybe you just need to have a certain item in your inventory. Make it different though.
6. Avoid power creep. Or the gradual buildup in strength of the game over time. Make it so that someone can play at release and reach level 30 and come back and have items that are still good and effective. New releases should be the same strength or slightly better or slightly worse. This includes monsters, armor, weapons, potions, etc.
7. Make the enemies logical. They should deal consistent damage and should aggro when attacked, not just when a player gets really close. This will help you scale damage much better.
8. Don't make 800 bosses. In a game, there should be a handful of more important fights but do not make an RPG that revolves around killing infinite bosses. This makes the point of a boss obsolete.
9. Make the bosses special. Not just 100000000 health and 10000000 damage. Make it randomly shoot fireballs or some other special attack. Make the attacks dodgable or make it so that you have to kill it a certain way (perhaps by slicing at the boss's back) Boss does not mean "super tanky enemy that deals lots of damage so you have to be level 1000000 to kill it)
10. Make your weapons unique. There should not be 5 swords that are OP, 5 underpowered bows and 5 underpowered "staves". Put in daggers and legitimate bows (auto targeting would be a nice touch for something hard to aim), and spells that add new effects or deal different kinds of damage (fire should be kinda bursty and air should be kind of DPS-like). Poisoned weapons are unique enough. Think about how you want weapons to be.
11. Guide the player. The player should always know where to go next or be able to get hints on where to go (they should be pretty obvious)... Maps will help with this a lot.
12. More skills. Leveling up gives you more health in RPG's right now. You should probably look to Runescape for a better way to do things though. Instead of just "leveling up", level up stats like attack, strength, defense, archery, magic, agility, cooking, etc. When doing "mining" and "woodcutting" (which are pretty flavor of the month at the moment) make it scale based on level and don't make it the only way to get income. Fluctuating prices can help you accomplish this.
13. Replayability is key. The game should take longer than 2 hours to complete. Let players save and come back and entice them to leave and return for max profit.
14. Have fun making it. The biggest issue is burning out on a project and not enjoying making it anymore. And then it doesn't get developed, burns, and dies to never be played again.
15. Start up the game with a group of friends and a large ad run. After you hit 100 players online, it sustains itself with traffic to the first few pages of games. Getting there is the hard part. Enticing pictures and titles work wonders on this site (I've done a small study on the effects of it, and it's sadly true that people play games solely for the title and picture)
Hope this helps!! |
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| 29 Sep 2012 12:05 PM |
In my opinion, RPGs can be extremely boring to very, very fun. What makes it fun is when you have something to look forward to. |
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sam6175
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2008 |
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| 29 Sep 2012 12:09 PM |
One major issue is all these little groups springing up saying "Join me to make the next great RPG!" They have great ambition but are really just sitting around dreaming about creating a good game. Thinking about creating something wont make it happen, hard work and determination does that. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 12:21 PM |
| How can you maintain something for the player to look forward to, yet, keep them from hitting the ceiling? |
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| 29 Sep 2012 12:36 PM |
| I appreciate your essay aboy, and but can anyone elaborate on the topic of what makes a good fun combat system? |
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| 29 Sep 2012 12:41 PM |
| Make it dreadfully complicated. :3 |
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| 29 Sep 2012 12:43 PM |
| If dreadful is in it than that means it's not good. |
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aboy5643
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| Joined: 08 Oct 2010 |
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| 29 Sep 2012 01:14 PM |
On the topic of combat systems, there are a few tried and true:
1. Skill based + auto attacking. Pretty simple, you choose the target, it auto attacks, the enemy auto attacks, and you use "skills" (normally with numeric hotkeys) that either buff or do more damage or whatever depending on class. It's pretty common in MMO's now-a-days.
2. In Roblox RPG's the thing is click spam and the enemy does "touch" damage. Fix this with consistent enemy damage (like damage every X seconds) and an attack by the user that doesn't rely on untouching and retouching the enemy with the sword. This would be okay.
3. Just auto attacks. Choose target and have player attack, then have enemy attack, and alternate until one dies. You can make this work with swords, bows, and magic. |
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| 29 Sep 2012 09:48 PM |
So you're basically saying auto-attacks and buffs and special abilities.
Would you think that is unique enough? Are there any other alternatives or how would I change it to be more unique?
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aboy5643
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| Joined: 08 Oct 2010 |
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| 29 Sep 2012 10:20 PM |
I never said it was unique. But those are some basic systems that definitely make sense to the player. They anticipate behaviors like that and can easily adapt which is crucial to development on Roblox with an intended audience of ages 6 to 10. You can, however, modify within these bounds quite a bit and even stretch their definitions with your own twist.
You could, for instance, do some kind of "runic button" interface that lets you combine any runes to cast a spell. You would learn new combos as the game progresses and unlock more powerful spells. This allows the user to interact in combat without leaving things up to dumb luck in the system working.
But yes, auto attacks are consistent. They don't always have to hit though!! They just have to happen in some way consistently. |
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| 30 Sep 2012 04:42 AM |
| In my RPG I use a select combat system. You select a target with the mouse and fight it with skills by using hotkeys. |
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