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Re: i bet i could name one sport that does not

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ddude is not online. ddude
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Joined: 11 Nov 2007
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25 Sep 2012 10:34 PM
have a labor union and is doing very well without it.

nascar

you got the head guys up at nascar, then the officials, then owners, team, and driver.

nothing between the officials/head guys and the owners.

and have they had a season cancelled or disputes like this? nope. which proves why going without a labor union is much better.

kthx

/endrant
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1589
25 Sep 2012 10:39 PM
are you kidding me
maybe because nascar drivers are redneck morons

any sensible person would realize that a labor union is incredibly beneficial

did you know that the NFL refs make 120,000 a season, work part and full time jobs outside of reffing, and the owners want them to make less AND take away their pension

if you do not see what is wrong with this, then you probably don't believe in dinosaurs either
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 10:44 PM
>redneck morons

oh the stereotypes of nascar. surprisingly, some of the best guys are from california, las vegas, and the mid-atlantic/east coast.

but still. you see how nascar does. they're doing fine without labor unions. it's just the big wigs with the major sports are too caught up in the money to realize that they don't NEED a labor union. yes, it's beneficial, but if they would pour some of their money back into the sport, they'd get more from it.
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orangehorns64 is not online. orangehorns64
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 2483
25 Sep 2012 10:45 PM
nascar in a nutshell:
- redneck hicks driving around and wrecking vehicles, may even DIE like dale sr
- boring


im not a normal texan, even to be saying this
im not your ordinary texan, im north mexican
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123yonnd is not online. 123yonnd
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Joined: 19 Jul 2008
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25 Sep 2012 10:47 PM
Educate yourself about it. The cars in this day of age are so safe, you can take a terrible wreck and come out of it with minor injuries like a minor backache.
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orangehorns64 is not online. orangehorns64
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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25 Sep 2012 10:47 PM
in not all cases donny
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 10:49 PM
@yonnd

THIS. FREAKING THIS. THANK YOU.

watch micheal mcdowell's qualifying crash at texas and tell me that if the cars were like they used to be, he would have died. nascar isn't full of morons. there's people behind designing those cars in nascar.

"nascar in a nutshell:
- redneck hicks driving around and wrecking vehicles, may even DIE like dale sr
- boring"

oh more stereotypes. lol
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1589
25 Sep 2012 10:49 PM
ARE YOU KIDDING ME
it's not about the money, it's about the benefits that they need

the nascar drivers are morons. do you wanna know how much dale earnhardt's family recieved after he died? 0. 0 dollars. after every fatal accident, there's another safety thing installed. unless they aren't redneck morons (i don't care where you're from, if your neck is red, you're a redneck) they should realize that they shouldn't be matyrs for safety, and instead demand safer cars.

you know about those lawsuits between the NFL and NHL and former players about concussions? labor unions prevent that. if the players idly stand by and wait for their brains to be scrambled before they take action, they'll end up like junior seau or booregard
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123yonnd is not online. 123yonnd
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25 Sep 2012 10:50 PM
Nope. Basically all cases, unless the harness and the Hans Device isn't put in correctly, but officials do check for safety very strictly.
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1589
25 Sep 2012 10:52 PM
yet people still die

during performance deaths since my birth
NFL: 0
NHL: 0
MLB: 0
NBA: 0
NASCAR: 10
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123yonnd is not online. 123yonnd
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25 Sep 2012 10:57 PM
The last on in the Top 3 series being Dale Srs crash over a decade ago. As Whelen and the Mexico series hasn't had the same safety standards.
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 10:58 PM
honsetly, motor racing is a risk and reward sport. so yes, there are risks of getting seriously hurt, obviously. but it's what they love. they're probably protected if they get hurt, like brad keselowski last year with his ankle.

sidenote, you could leave the dan wheldon incident out of the safety thing installed afterwards. he was actually one of the people who helped designed the new indycar.

anyways, you don't get into a car expecting to crash and get seriously hurt, do you? no. do you expect to strap on a hockey helmet or football helmet and get hit hard? yes. that's what football's about. that's what happens in hockey too.

the thing with concussions, is that the players don't tell anybody because they want to play. so people like seau, no matter how nice the guy was, probably didn't tell anyone about the problems or was not fully aware of it.

also look at it this way. fatal crashes are an extreme rarity nowadays. especially in the american auto racing series. how many has their been in the context of racing since 2000 in either nascar or indycar? i'm guessing i could count them on one hand, and could name a couple right off the top of my brain (dale earnhardt, dan wheldon). yet you see so many football guys go out with concussions.

so i guess i get what you're saying by explaining that. it is somewhat needed, but not to the point where stuff like what's going on right now happens.

nascar's doing fine without labor unions. always has, always will.
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1589
25 Sep 2012 11:21 PM
@123yonnnd
mexican series is still run by nascar

"honsetly, motor racing is a risk and reward sport. so yes, there are risks of getting seriously hurt, obviously. but it's what they love. they're probably protected if they get hurt, like brad keselowski last year with his ankle."
this isn't jacka**
the drivers do not enter each race thinking "oh boy i just love the fact that there's a massive potential that i could be seriously injured or i could die!!!"

"sidenote, you could leave the dan wheldon incident out of the safety thing installed afterwards. he was actually one of the people who helped designed the new indycar."
oh look
he still died
not safe enough

"anyways, you don't get into a car expecting to crash and get seriously hurt, do you?"
contradiction
if the racers love the fact that there is a risk they could be seriously injured, they would expect a crash to happen

"no. do you expect to strap on a hockey helmet or football helmet and get hit hard? yes. that's what football's about. that's what happens in hockey too."
and no one has died on field because of a hit

"the thing with concussions, is that the players don't tell anybody because they want to play. so people like seau, no matter how nice the guy was, probably didn't tell anyone about the problems or was not fully aware of it."
which is why labour unions exist

"also look at it this way. fatal crashes are an extreme rarity nowadays."
10 in the past seventeen years in NASCAR alone
that's not extremely rare

"especially in the american auto racing series."
nop

"how many has their been in the context of racing since 2000 in either nascar or indycar? i'm guessing i could count them on one hand, and could name a couple right off the top of my brain (dale earnhardt, dan wheldon)."
8 in NASCAR since 2000, 3 in indycar
that requires two hands, and that's a death a year
56 people have died at the indy 500 in it's history

"yet you see so many football guys go out with concussions."
football players live longer than MLB players

"so i guess i get what you're saying by explaining that. it is somewhat needed, but not to the point where stuff like what's going on right now happens."
they definately need it
whenever the next death happens, i'm sure someone will step in and say that it is ridiculous

"nascar's doing fine without labor unions. always has, always will."
>sport where there are high odds of dying
>fine without a labor union
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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25 Sep 2012 11:23 PM
fun fact:
indycar has a union
only four indycar drivers have died in it's history, and only one has died during a race

NASCAR doesn't have a union
6 drivers have died during a race in the past ten years
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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25 Sep 2012 11:27 PM
f1 also has a union
27 drivers have died since 1952
2002 was the last year a driver died

55 nascar drivers have died since 1952
three died after their crashes, you know, where union benefits might've actually helped them
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 11:33 PM
like yonnd said, whelen and some of the other smaller NASCAR divisions don't necessarily have the safety innovations like Sprint Cup, Nationwide, and Camping World do. there have been no deaths in nascar's three major series in the past ten years since dale died.
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 11:36 PM
plus, the hits i've seen nowadays seem a helluva lot harder than they used to be. yet they're surviving. why? because of the safety design on the cars and the safety inside the cockpit on the driver.

nascar has always been a sport of live and learn, unfortunately, as with all of the auto racing sport.

plus, tell me how many people that have been involved in a crash that have not died have had long lasting effects after racing? then compare them to the amount of football or hockey players that have had effects of hits after retiring.
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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25 Sep 2012 11:37 PM
"whelen and some of the other smaller NASCAR divisions don't necessarily have the safety innovations like Sprint Cup, Nationwide, and Camping World do"
those are operated by NASCAR
they have the same safety standards

"there have been no deaths in nascar's three major series in the past ten years since dale died."
but people have still died


if three planes, one carrying 11 people, one carrying 21 people, and one carrying 17 people all crash because of the same malfunction, are you saying that you would only care if a plance carrying 117 people crashed because of the same malfunction?
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123yonnd is not online. 123yonnd
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25 Sep 2012 11:40 PM
They don't have the safety implications because of the lack of money produced for that racing league. Meaning lower quality cars are produced.
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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25 Sep 2012 11:42 PM
if NASCAR attaches their name to it, they're legally and logistically obliged to attach their safety standards to it
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 11:43 PM
1. the whelen series does not have room to put all of the foaming and stuff that they do on the Sprint Cup or fendered cars because of the open wheels. plus, the small divisions don't have the newer cars. they still run the old ones cars without the safety improvements to the car. yes, they have the HANS device, but not the padding they do on the cars in the top 3 divisions

2. yes, but a significant amount less..

3. that's not what i'm saying at all. i'm saying they're constantly trying to improve. with dale earnhardt, he just happened to be a legend in the sport when it happened. if that would have happened with a lower tier guy, they probably would have done the same things they did with dale's incident.
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1589
25 Sep 2012 11:46 PM
1. read what i said to yonnd
and you know as well as i know that no smart driver would drive a car in that series knowing it was unsafe

2. people dying doing a sport is not okay

3. "there have been no deaths in nascar's three major series in the past ten years since dale died."
that is what you are saying
if it's not a major series, it doesn't matter
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ddude is not online. ddude
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25 Sep 2012 11:54 PM
1. the cars are safe as they are, but the way that people die is in a freak set of circumstances. it's not like they design the cars to be death machines. it's just that the deaths occur because of abnormal hits, etc.

2. well no duh. i'm saying it's been significantly reduced in the past ten years.

3. no. i'm not saying that. there were many deaths in NASCAR's top series (known as winston, then grand national series) before 2000. even in the lower series there were a significant amount of deaths compared to nowadays. you can't look at that and tell me that it hasn't improved a great deal.
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spicycelerythe3peat is not online. spicycelerythe3peat
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 1589
25 Sep 2012 11:59 PM
1. a tennis player can die because of a freak set of circumstances. 10/10 those circumstances won't happen. most collisions aren't freak accidents, but are accidents that jeoprodized safety. why do you think all the safety reccomendations come in after the accidents? aren't the cars safe enough?

2. that's still bad

3. it's a quote, you said that.
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ddude is not online. ddude
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26 Sep 2012 12:15 AM
1. So you're telling me the crash that killed Dale Earnhardt was intentional, correct?

2. I get that. Obviously. I think we've both agreed on that and made it crystal clear.

3. And yes, I did say that, but I didn't intend it to mean the way you're taking it. The teams in the lower divisions don't have the resources, nor the money to afford the newer cars. Nor does NASCAR have the ability to create hundreds of cars for the various series around the country. But still, out of all the races that go on every weekend, which is a lot, trust me, it very rarely happens that there is a fatal crash during a race. They're very rare and few and far between.

And back to football, how many people have you seen have nerve damage or serious injuries related to hard, illegal (or clean) hits in football in say...ten years? I can think of three our four in just in this overall football season alone. I'm always afraid for that one time it will end up fatal in a major game. Then what will you say and what will football as a whole say?
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