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Re: Why does Flash get more support than HTML5?

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OrienBrokeheart is not online. OrienBrokeheart
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 78
28 Aug 2012 05:52 PM
HTML5, in my opinion, actually feels a bit easier for making games and stuff. I've written some platform engines, like that RPG-type isometric engine, and stuff like that in HTML5.

I mean, HTML5 is actually pretty good, but I hardly ever see HTML5 games.

Flash is pretty good, and ActionScript feels very similar to JavaScript, but HTML5 is still good as well.

Why is it neglected so much?
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myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
28 Aug 2012 05:56 PM
Because Flash has been around for quite a while, and HTML5 is still somewhat new and many browsers still haven't fully implemented it.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
28 Aug 2012 06:05 PM
Because making HTML5 games is _really hard_ because there's no tools to work with.

Flash is an amazing piece of software for animation, it would be almost impossible to achieve some of the things people can easily animate in Flash using HTML5, because there are no tools for the job.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
28 Aug 2012 06:07 PM
Usually, 'HTML5' is used to designate all the recent open web technologies, including what is really HTML5.

In this case, I have to completely agree with you. Of course that these technologies are easier to use than Flash. There's a reason they're standardized, open and portable. They are better than Flash and other alternatives in every single way, and that, by their very own definition. That is what they were meant to be.

The reason Flash games are more popular is simply because these technologies are new. In fact, HTML5 and related technologies have gotten an impressive amount of attention. HTML5 and many new technologies are still far from standardization, and yet, they are already being used a lot.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
28 Aug 2012 06:08 PM
"Because making HTML5 games is _really hard_ because there's no tools to work with."

That used to be true, but it isn't really even true anymore.

I'm myself surprised at how fast tools, libraries, engines and everything are developing around HTML5 and other technologies.

While it will still take some time for Flash to become harder to use than HTML5, the tools are already good enough to be used right now.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
28 Aug 2012 06:13 PM
Point still stands that it is much easier to make something work in Flash than HTML5.

Prime Example, Shape Tweening: You can basically just throw two things at Flash and say "tween it" and it will make a decent result. There is nothing comparable in HTML5.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
28 Aug 2012 06:19 PM
@Stravant

In most cases, yes, you are right.

However, this is changing very fast, and it is clear as of now already that HTML5 and its related technologies will evolve faster than Flash will be able to, and further too, as HTML5 is, by its own design, easier to use and simpler than Flash.

It will take a lot of time, however, for Flash and other similar plugins to disappear. It might take a lot of time, but it is clear that it will happen, and it is clear that HTML5 will evolve much faster than Flash will ever be able to.
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OrienBrokeheart is not online. OrienBrokeheart
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 78
28 Aug 2012 06:20 PM
@stravant
That's the fun thing about it! I always love creating the tools.

I mean, HTML5 can do all you need. It has double-buffered graphics, you can draw images onto the CANVAS, and you can draw graphics. You can also get keypress, mouseclick, etc.
All you have to do is write some REAL basic code and you can create all the tools for you.

Like, I always like to make the GameObject class, so I can do this:

var player = new GameObject(0,0,32,32,"sprite.png");

That creates a 32x32 sprite named player at (0,0). I also give the GameObjects Depth, Velocity_X, Previous_X, Velocity_Y, Previous_Y, Weight, Gravity, etc.

It's fun!
And most browsers support HTML5 games already. Even the 3DS browser.

The only thing that they have some trouble with is sound. Some browsers only support some formats. But you can solve that by uploaded the audio file in two different formats, and then make it detect your browser and play the audio file based on your browser.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
28 Aug 2012 06:22 PM
"HTML5 and its related technologies will evolve faster than Flash will be able to, and further too"

I doubt this. Flash can move as fast as they want to. HTML5 is bound by a standardization process.

"as HTML5 is, by its own design, easier to use and simpler than Flash."

There is nothing simple or elegant about designing HTML5 games, nothing. HTML is about as inelegant as you can possible get, it's 10 years of only just compatible standards piled on top of one and other.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
28 Aug 2012 06:27 PM
@Stravant

Yes, Flash can move as fast as they want. But the standardization process in HTML5 is precisely what will, in enough time, make HTML5 better.

Also, note that HTML5, as I use it in this case, mainly designates the new features in HTML. I do agree that many things in HTML are inelegant and I would personally have preferred if they had followed the path of XHTML instead of HTML (though you can still use HTML with XML if you want to, so I guess it doesn't change much), but you have to agree that the new technologies are very promising, no?

One of the things that I hate the most is having to keep things compatible. While it is necessary, it makes improvement much harder.
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popinman322 is not online. popinman322
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 5184
28 Aug 2012 06:29 PM
"it's 10 years of only just compatible standards piled on top of one and other."

It sounds like a blob of silly putty being grudgingly moved across a table.
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OrienBrokeheart is not online. OrienBrokeheart
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 78
28 Aug 2012 07:23 PM
@stravant

HTML5 games are basically just JavaScript using the HTML5 Canvas tag.


canvas.DrawImage("test.png",5,5);
canvas.ClearRect(0,0,canvas.width,canvas.height);

for (var i=0; i<=10; i++) {
...do something
}


It's not that messy....
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
28 Aug 2012 07:46 PM
@OrienBrokeheart

That's if all you're talking about is the canvas.

But it's actually way more than just that. There are lots of other things too: local storage, sockets, WebGL, audio element, and a lot more...

Most of those are new and nothing in them is really messy, though.

What Stravant was talking about is the old things that are still present in HTML. Not the new technologies it allow us to use.
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myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
28 Aug 2012 07:48 PM
Until HTML5 can use UDP, it isn't as capable of supporting big realtime games as NaCl or native plugins.
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EMAN381 is not online. EMAN381
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 4300
28 Aug 2012 08:00 PM
Random thought here; if Apple dislikes Flash so much because it "consumes so much processing", why won't Adobe optimize flash cleaner or just create a mobile version.
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EMAN381 is not online. EMAN381
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 4300
28 Aug 2012 08:01 PM
*?
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myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
28 Aug 2012 08:06 PM
>Random thought here; if Apple dislikes Flash so much because it "consumes so much processing", why won't Adobe optimize flash cleaner or just create a mobile version.

Because Apple doesn't want software on its products to be locked in to a third-party platform, basically. Only Adobe can control Flash, and Apple doesn't like that.
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AdvRobot is not online. AdvRobot
Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 172
28 Aug 2012 08:11 PM
Flash is very vulnerably to exploits. If there was something else everyone would try it out. Flash is so important and same with HTML5 if you haven't noticed they stop development of flash for mobile phones. So they are about equal in support.
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