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| 04 Aug 2012 06:53 AM |
| Do you actually create and use them on your creations? Not many people seem to talk about their use of them, so I would like to know. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 06:55 AM |
no. i dont use anything dealing with scripting unless someone else makes it for me. scripting is too hard for me right now. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 07:00 AM |
flow charts are the most useless things ever. by the time you've finished drawing one you probably could've scripted the entire thing.
plus they get so bloated and confusing if your script does anything other than one or two actions. |
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Shokwav
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2008 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 07:04 AM |
"flow charts are the most useless things ever."
Lol.
"by the time you've finished drawing one you probably could've scripted the entire thing."
Yeah, and by scripted, you mean poorly structured. Flow charts are invaluable; even in procedural languages like Lua. If you ever get serious with this stuff, or ever want to have some structure in your programming, I STRONGLY recommend them. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 07:04 AM |
| You just have to follow the flow, man. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 07:12 AM |
1.Think about perfect architecture for class 2.Make it 3.Noo its laggy and wont work with multithreading if i ever implemented it and it takes moar than 2 filessss 4.Make nonextensible everywhere-dependent huge blob class 5.perfectly elegant solution |
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Shokwav
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2008 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 07:14 AM |
3.Noo its laggy and wont work with multithreading if i ever implemented it and it takes moar than 2 filessss
Lag doesn't have anything to do with architecture, unless you're passing by value, in which case shame on you. :p Also, everything I make in C++ is like a 1:2 ratio of class-to-files |
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| 04 Aug 2012 08:29 AM |
How I script:
1. Think about it 2. Find 3 ways it could work 3. Try the easiest one out 4. If it works, profit 5. If not, look at code for about 10 minutes until you magically see something wrong 6. Fix it 7. If it works, profit 8. If not, try different method. 9. Repeat until it works 10. Redo it if it has bugs 11. Clean up (remove ugly haxes) 12. ??? 13. Profit |
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su8
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| Joined: 06 Mar 2009 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 08:34 AM |
how do i script:
1. think about it just before i go to bed 2. forget it by the morning 3. get bored and then i just do some magic and i have something done |
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| 04 Aug 2012 08:41 AM |
How everybody scripts:
1. Magic 2. Profit |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:15 AM |
"Yeah, and by scripted, you mean poorly structured."
Rather than writing the code on paper inside pretty boxes I can write it on the computer and move it around, paste and copy, cut, delete, and add at will. |
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Aerideyn
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2010 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:16 AM |
Yes i use flow charts and diagrame quite extensively (outside of roblox even more so)
It helps alot to put all the jobs your program has to do into a flow chart, not the really little things like "set variable to X and multiply by 2" but rather the big jobs like in my game:
Octreetree chunk Asked To Merge: ( happens when parent node is of sufficient detail, we need to purge any child nodes and draw ourself until parent has rebuilt it's mesh - parent will purge this chunk when not needed anymore. | Parent chunk merging as well? | Yes=============================No |..............................................................| Chunk mesh available?................Chunk mesh available? |......................................................|................| Yes=============No..................Yes===============No |..............................|......................|.................................| destroy any ..............Abort mesh......destroy any children ....draw children child nodes...............building...........draw self Draw chunk...............draw children parent will call ..........in our place. draw on this chunk each frame until it's mesh has been built
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Aerideyn
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2010 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:21 AM |
thats great trapping when you are working on a isolated little script. But once you are working on a big project which has several modules all working with each other it is a waste of time to dive in and start coding only to realise your approach is an inherently flawed design because of some circumstance you didnt foresee.
Work it through on paper - dont bother with the detail just put your conditionals and your method calls.
flow charts are there to help define your architecture, how all your data structures are set up to work with your system.
once you start writing a chart you will notice straight away when something isnt going to work - when you will need data you won't have. So you can instead restructure it so your system will work elegently and cleanly right from the beggining.
5 minutes to work together a program flow on paper < 5 hours spent rewriting a class because you need to change it's very foundations. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:25 AM |
| I'm speaking in the context of Roblox, since that's what this forum is centered around, not off-roblox projects. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:26 AM |
| And if your modules are coded correctly you shouldn't need to have to recode an entire thing just to adjust one small piece of a project. |
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Aerideyn
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2010 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:28 AM |
Thats is exactly right. Thats where your planning comes into it. Makeing sure it will work before you code up something in haste which won't. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:30 AM |
| I can hold a program's structure in my short term memory easily, I see no point in writing it all out in pretty boxes to glorify an idea that is useless anyway since noone ever downloads or plays anything I make. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:33 AM |
how i actually code:
1.2 months to think game idea 2.Code unrelated utility class because feel like it 3.Rework how everything is organized 4.Need to make octree 5.omfg i cant use pointers they waste space assuming i want to have 9001-digit memory space to access 6.omfg my cache doesnt like if i put the nodes randomly in the node vector 7.nodes need to be in buckets 8.looks ugly, cant make bucket stored octree that stores its buckets in bucket stored octree that stores its buckets in regular octree 9.think about structure for 2 months 10.Know how to do it 11.Requires more than 2 classes 12.Too complex, lets play free in-dev multiplayer games 13.??? 14. 1.37% yearly economic growth |
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8SunTzu8
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| Joined: 30 Sep 2011 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:39 AM |
I don't make flow charts, I usually type it out into English, whatever idea I might have.
It usually works.
Prehis's method seems similar to mine... do it until it works, then fix all of the glitches or anything the player can exploit.
"Improvise, Overcome, and Adapt." -Captain (RIP) |
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Aerideyn
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2010 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 09:43 AM |
For roblox you can probably get away with sloppy habits. I am just saying that in my experience it is very difficult to get clean, ordered tidy code just by starting typing at the top and working right through without spending a great deal of time debugging, organise and plan it and your debugging will consist almost 100% of syntax errors only.
If you end up working on something bigger, just give it a go. you will save days and days. |
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| 04 Aug 2012 10:12 AM |
1. Start scripting 2. Start wondering why I don't have classes, enums and switch blocks 3. Spend around a week creating a lexical manipulation system 4. End up creating another language that "compiles" to Lua 5. Wonder what I was thinking |
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mew903
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| Joined: 03 Aug 2008 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 10:14 AM |
1) Use CLua 2) Magic 3) Profit |
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| 04 Aug 2012 10:15 AM |
@mew
Mine system is epical, even if it did take too long to create. x3 |
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mew903
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| Joined: 03 Aug 2008 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 10:17 AM |
| Are you going to release it? (Also, what syntax does it use) |
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RA2lover
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| Joined: 09 Nov 2008 |
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| 04 Aug 2012 10:33 AM |
i usually use flowcharts - but only for larger stuff(1k+ lines).
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