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I'm at a loss on what to do with JC.

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calebbishop is not online. calebbishop
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 8476
28 Jul 2012 08:18 AM
I think we have all made our point. Except for the 'give-it-to-vak' arguement, there were alot of good points. I think we should stop debating and leave Epic to it.
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assasinatorking is not online. assasinatorking
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4632
28 Jul 2012 08:19 AM
Your Oath is to the people of JC. So do whats right for them!
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calebbishop is not online. calebbishop
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 8476
28 Jul 2012 08:20 AM
Before I stop, I agree with Reaven.
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Valone is not online. Valone
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 4371
28 Jul 2012 08:20 AM
Epicrules, got x/F?
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assasinatorking is not online. assasinatorking
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4632
28 Jul 2012 08:20 AM
Tip 1:

Don't give it to Valone
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1AmericanPatriot is not online. 1AmericanPatriot
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 675
28 Jul 2012 08:21 AM
No,
I don't want JC.
I want to help JC.
JC has a huge influence over ROBLOX.
If I could help it,
That would be time on ROBLOX well spent.
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chickenlord is not online. chickenlord
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 14717
28 Jul 2012 08:21 AM
>I, [my name], swear an oath of loyalty to the people of John's Cobras.

And you'd be giving them loyalty.

>I swear that I shall lead the clan to the best of my ability, and that I shall not let the clan down.

You're letting it down if you're not leading it to the best of your ability.

>I shall dedicate my life to the people whilst I am serving them until the Emperor returns.

You'd still be Serving the people, regardless if john was in the picture.

> I promise not to make any choices which I know will be degrading to the clan, and I promise to uphold the honour of the people.

Do so, Because returning it to john wouldn't be honoring the people.

I swear that I shall return John's Cobras to it's rightful owner pspjohn1 if he ever requests it, and that I shall not give the clan away to any other person.

>And This goes back to the people, it's okay to ignore their opinion because John says so? The Oath contradicts itself.

HAIL COBRAS!

>Spit that somewhere else.
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Reaven is not online. Reaven
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 9181
28 Jul 2012 08:22 AM
@Epic

Quite honestly, your morals and oaths are the reason people in history have allowed great tyrants to exist when they could have stopped them.

Who gives a crap about you stupid "oath". What matters to you more? You speak of honor and morals? You're a fool. Morals and honor are based on yourself, not some guy with a huge ego. If the way you decide your honor is what others tell you to do, then you're missing the point of being a leader.

Being a leader is to do the proper for the group. If all you care about is what the last dictator says, then you're not a leader, and probably shouldn't even bother leading JC. He can advise you all he wants, and as long as it's good advise, follow it. If it's bad, then he's giving selfish advise to retain his power, not lead JC.
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Valone is not online. Valone
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 4371
28 Jul 2012 08:22 AM
Assasitor.
I don't want him to, I'd rather he keeps it.

Secondly, before you say that, I've turned a group of 10,000 people around.
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Meowmixxed is not online. Meowmixxed
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 12263
28 Jul 2012 08:22 AM
>"I swear that I shall return John's Cobras to it's rightful owner pspjohn1 if he ever requests it, and that I shall not give the clan away to any other person. HAIL COBRAS!"

So this is basically the section which states you must return and/or keep the group.

Firstly there is a grammar mistake right off - "it's" should be "its". So essentially he said, "to it is rightful owner pspjohn1". In addition, "rightful" is improper usage in this case. On ROBLOX the only rightful owner is the current owner of the group - it isn't defined here, and is therefore ambiguous and null. That sentence where he states you must return it is moot. Despite that you should not be following this oath anyways.

In the following sentence where it states you must not give it away, "the clan" is ambiguous and there is a parallelism error, as which clan he is talking about is not specified.

This is a poorly written oath, but a poor leader. Even in the first line you swear loyalty to JC, one with true loyalty to JC would do what is best for JC and the people.

That is all we're saying.
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calebbishop is not online. calebbishop
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 8476
28 Jul 2012 08:23 AM
I do not like not posting.
Chicken has it all done. If you are truly loyal to JC, do what the people wants. If you become the leader and they all want John back, give it to him and ever-so nobly leave.
It is a gamble. These are suggestions, there are many ways to go about this.
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assasinatorking is not online. assasinatorking
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4632
28 Jul 2012 08:23 AM
Do whats right for JC...


OR just let it be shut down by VAK
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chickenlord is not online. chickenlord
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 14717
28 Jul 2012 08:24 AM
Assasin, You're not funny, please get out. If you can't discuss big boy politics then remove yourself.



Epic, the goal of leadership is to do the best for the people. If my people demanded my removal from the GA, I would do so.
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Epicrules is not online. Epicrules
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 6732
28 Jul 2012 08:25 AM
1americanpatriot, I've ignored literally every single post you've made on account of your clearly misinformed and unguided arguments with the backing of your "VAK FTW!!!!" opinion. Everyone else, thank you for the, I can't think of the word, but a close one to it would be "Guidance". I'm still very... confused on what to do. Especially because both oaths contradict eachother... "My first loyalty is to Pspjohn1", and then "I, [name], swear an oath of loyalty to the people of John's Cobras. I swear that I shall lead the clan to the best of my ability, and that I shall not let the clan down."
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1AmericanPatriot is not online. 1AmericanPatriot
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 675
28 Jul 2012 08:25 AM
No,
No VAK shutdown
I want to help JC by aiding Epic.
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assasinatorking is not online. assasinatorking
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4632
28 Jul 2012 08:25 AM
It's not funny. It's a good decision. It helps the people by having them realize what a frail clan they are.
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Reaven is not online. Reaven
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 9181
28 Jul 2012 08:25 AM
@Vak VAC

I order you to stop telling Epic to shutdown JC for Vak. You're out of line, being disrespectful, and completely missing the point. All you're doing is furthering Epic's conviction to his own leader the more you act like conquering Nords.

If you'd like Epic to have any chance of making JC under different leadership, stop. You're only making it more difficult for me to help.
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chickenlord is not online. chickenlord
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 14717
28 Jul 2012 08:26 AM
Epic, I beg of you to make an unbiased opinion. Ignore our discussion here, and ignore john's input. Decide as the leader of JC, What is better for the people, a tyrant, Or a caring and trusting leader?
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assasinatorking is not online. assasinatorking
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4632
28 Jul 2012 08:26 AM
Epic is a good leader.
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whaleofaperson is not online. whaleofaperson
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 2837
28 Jul 2012 08:26 AM
Make the HRs earn their ranks again. They ban people when they're winning a raid.
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calebbishop is not online. calebbishop
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 8476
28 Jul 2012 08:27 AM
John's loyalty is to the people, yours to him, therefor rendering your loyalty to him obsolete at this point. It his a paradox, but think of it as in your favour.
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Meowmixxed is not online. Meowmixxed
Joined: 22 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 12263
28 Jul 2012 08:27 AM
Indeed, and giving the clan back to pspjohn WOULD be letting it down. Allowing a tyrant to continue to reign over it is breaking the oath in and of itself, and pspjohn is that tyrant. I wish you luck.
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Reaven is not online. Reaven
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 9181
28 Jul 2012 08:27 AM
@Epic

What is the most important part of an oath, constitution, or many legal documents about honor and stuff? Your loyalty is to the people. John forcing an oath for himself (and a poorly worded one) is an archaic invention of the monarchical medieval era of Europe. Guess what era failed because all the monarchs were killed by wars or revolutionaries. Guess what happens to all corrupted leadership eventually?
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assasinatorking is not online. assasinatorking
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4632
28 Jul 2012 08:27 AM
Get some good HRs
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1AmericanPatriot is not online. 1AmericanPatriot
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 675
28 Jul 2012 08:28 AM
I'm not the one who's wanting it shutdown.
Assassin, stop with the shutdown stuff.
I think I am making a legit offer to help JC.
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