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The Creation

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SuperMarioIsAwesome is not online. SuperMarioIsAwesome
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 16966
23 Jun 2012 12:54 AM
Even if the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God of Christianity does not exist, that does not mean that there is no God at all. We cannot fully comprehend God, therefore we cannot be completely sure that He possesses or does not possess certain qualities (such as omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence). Thus, any argument that attacks these qualities in an attempt to disprove the existence of God is ultimately irrelevant, since we do not know if God has these qualities or not. However, I believe in the Christian God, so my arguments will defend the existence of the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God of Christianity.

The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists. The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists. Emotions, values, beliefs, and thoughts cannot be found by using any of our senses, yet they are as real as rocks or trees. Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical. Thus, simply because something cannot be found through the use of the five senses does not mean that it does not exist.

Some atheists say that no God has been found through the use of the senses, therefore no God exists. But simply because God cannot be found by way of the senses does not mean that He does not exist. Christians believe in a supernatural or non-material God. They believe that God has manifested Himself in material form and in material ways on certain occasions (such as the Incarnation, and when He spoke audibly to Moses at Mount Sinai). However, God is spirit (John 4:24), and in His "normal" state He cannot be found by the use of the senses. Therefore, any attempt to reach God by way of the senses would be virtually pointless.

Wind can only be seen indirectly (leaves moving, dust scattering, trees swaying, etc). Christians believe that, like wind, God can be seen indirectly. They believe that He can be seen indirectly through Creation (Nature), conscience, morality, etc. They also believe that a "touch" from God can be "felt". This feeling is spiritual, though sometimes it may produce physical or emotional sensations. Thus, even though a natural or material God does not exist, that does not mean that there is no God at all. A supernatural or non-material God can be just as real as a natural, tangible God.

The word 'conscience' can be defined as "the internal sense of what is right and wrong that governs somebody's thoughts and actions, urging him or her to do right rather than wrong." This 'conscience' is consistent, it always urges us to do right, and is not merely one of our desires or preferences. Feeling a desire to help is quite different from feeling that you ought to help whether you want to or not. Suppose you hear a cry for help from a drowning man. You will probably feel two desires: one desire to give help, the other a desire to keep out of danger. But you will find inside you, in addition to these two desires, a third thing which tells you that you ought to follow the impulse to help, and suppress the impulse to run away. This thing that judges between the two impulses, that decides which should be encouraged, cannot itself be either of them. This third thing is our 'conscience'.
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fef3 is not online. fef3
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 3234
23 Jun 2012 12:54 AM
tl;dr god must not be real
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JPFan is not online. JPFan
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 11110
23 Jun 2012 12:55 AM
"Even if the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God of Christianity does not exist, that does not mean that there is no God at all."


In conclusion, if god isn't real then god isn't real?
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SuperMarioIsAwesome is not online. SuperMarioIsAwesome
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 16966
23 Jun 2012 12:56 AM
@jpfan

Read the whole post...
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Acutical is not online. Acutical
Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 2722
23 Jun 2012 12:57 AM
Is what made me stop believing is because I believe in equality, And the bible is against that. I can't imagine a god who would send someone to hell if he made them that way.
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JPFan is not online. JPFan
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 11110
23 Jun 2012 12:58 AM
@Super; Yeah, not going to happen.


The only religions that would make since to me are Agnosticism (Which is what I am) and Deism, sort of.
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Dednoob66 is not online. Dednoob66
Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 68
23 Jun 2012 12:58 AM
@Acutical

Pretty much this.
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SuperMarioIsAwesome is not online. SuperMarioIsAwesome
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 16966
23 Jun 2012 12:59 AM
Agnosticism isn't a religion.
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SuperMarioIsAwesome is not online. SuperMarioIsAwesome
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 16966
23 Jun 2012 12:59 AM
"Is what made me stop believing is because I believe in equality, And the bible is against that. I can't imagine a god who would send someone to hell if he made them that way."

what?
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MattRules54321 is not online. MattRules54321
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 8940
23 Jun 2012 12:59 AM
well worded. well structured.
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JPFan is not online. JPFan
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 11110
23 Jun 2012 01:00 AM
Pardon? It is a religion, it means everything is unanswerable and nobody knows the truth if god exists or not. It's pretty real.
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Qwazola11 is not online. Qwazola11
Joined: 20 May 2012
Total Posts: 3044
23 Jun 2012 01:01 AM
"The only religions that would make since to me are Agnosticism (Which is what I am) and Deism, sort of."

Agnosticism is the dumbest of all.
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Dednoob66 is not online. Dednoob66
Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 68
23 Jun 2012 01:02 AM
@Qwazola

It's just copypasta, I read it millions of times before.
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vienna456 is not online. vienna456
Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 15043
23 Jun 2012 01:02 AM
God is a belief
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Qwazola11 is not online. Qwazola11
Joined: 20 May 2012
Total Posts: 3044
23 Jun 2012 01:02 AM
"It's just copypasta, I read it millions of times before."

Not talking about the OP.
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Dednoob66 is not online. Dednoob66
Joined: 04 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 68
23 Jun 2012 01:03 AM
Not Quazola, matt I mean.
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MattRules54321 is not online. MattRules54321
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 8940
23 Jun 2012 01:03 AM
@qwaz
well, it's open minded. atheism is just stating your ideas as facts as much as religion is.
both require a type of faith.
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MattRules54321 is not online. MattRules54321
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 8940
23 Jun 2012 01:03 AM
@ded
regardless, it's well worded and well structured
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JPFan is not online. JPFan
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 11110
23 Jun 2012 01:04 AM
I personally like Agnosticism, but oh well. u.u Still like the only one here.


I just believe that nobody here can prove anything because you have no actual proof that I can see, touch, or hear. (inb4"thebible")
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MattRules54321 is not online. MattRules54321
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 8940
23 Jun 2012 01:04 AM
@JPfan
did you not even read the OP
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JPFan is not online. JPFan
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 11110
23 Jun 2012 01:05 AM
@Matt; No. And I don't intend on reading it. No matter how well-worded it is, it can't convince me.
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Qwazola11 is not online. Qwazola11
Joined: 20 May 2012
Total Posts: 3044
23 Jun 2012 01:07 AM
"well, it's open minded. atheism is just stating your ideas as facts as much as religion is.
both require a type of faith."

Open-minded, but uncertain and stupid.

JPF, yes, nothing can be proven, but no point in uncertainty.
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MattRules54321 is not online. MattRules54321
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 8940
23 Jun 2012 01:07 AM
@JPF
you're implying god is an entity that you can discover by sense alone
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JPFan is not online. JPFan
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 11110
23 Jun 2012 01:13 AM
@Matt; No, I'm implying that it's unable to be proven of his existence or not.
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jumjum27 is not online. jumjum27
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 527
23 Jun 2012 01:19 AM
Alright.
 people who do not believe in a god don't do so because we cannot prove he exists with our senses.
It's the same reason people don't believe in unicorns. We have never seen a unicorn, and there isn't proof for them to exist.
Air can be demonstrated with a balloon or lungs.
Gravity can be demonstrated by dropping something.

I don't personally believe in a god, because I see no evidence for one.
I have yet to see anybody demonstrate that there is a god.

As for the your conscience, you're right in saying that it is what distinguishes right from wrong.
however, The urge to take action rather than stay safe is an instinct

(I don't have a citation for this, so google it or something)
To start, Humans are pretty pathetic when it comes to natural defense. We rely on our intelligence.
Earlier ancestors of ours probably had to maintain social relationships in order to survive.
You make more relationships if you save your own kind instead of running.
That instinct carried on to modern humans.

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