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Re: "its not a fact, its still just a theory!" is nonsense.

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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
08 May 2012 08:38 PM
Ive come across this statement many times in scientific debates with 'alternate' science folks, zealots, scientologists, and the like.

"you cant prove gravity, its just a theory!"

we have a perfect understanding of gravity, as do we thermodynamics, evolution, ect; all are called "theories".
they are called theories because in science, a theory is a widely accepted fact that is not a complete certain value but is known to be a real phenomenon.

there is a book in front of me, therefore i have theorized that book is infront of me, despite the fact that i am not completley aware of its contents; if i did, the book would become a law of physics literality. simply because i lack the knowledge of the books contents, does not mean the book is nonexistant. This is what a theory is.

By the way, air is not a theory, as we can demonstrate its exact compounds and universally accept that air is composed mostly of hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen gas. "Theories" such as thermodynamics and macroevolution have groups rallying to support new titles and to remove "theory" from the name.

you have hypothesis > testing phase > peer review > fringe science > scientific acceptence > theory > definite laws of nature applied > physical phenomenon (law)
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marius is not online. marius
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Total Posts: 1576
08 May 2012 08:40 PM
keep in mind that most of us are 12 to 15..
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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
08 May 2012 08:41 PM
i know
i just like making posts which appeal to specific groups i have common tastes with.
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iornfence is not online. iornfence
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 7305
08 May 2012 08:41 PM
AGREE
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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
08 May 2012 08:44 PM
in short,
theory =/= guess
not even = educated guess
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700gb is not online. 700gb
Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 7503
08 May 2012 08:47 PM
I hope one day we could make gravity a fact, but its a theory just for now....
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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
08 May 2012 08:49 PM
theories ARE facts, they are just (somewhat)uncertain values.
its a fact the book exists, but whether or not it was printed in england or new hamshire is the unknown value.
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noobertuber is not online. noobertuber
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Total Posts: 2321
08 May 2012 08:50 PM
Yes, just because it's a theory doesn't mean it is not true, But don't forget the counterpart: just because it's a theory doesn't mean it is true. There are many legitimate arguments against evolution. It is worth noting that evolution is not the same type of theory as thermodynamics. Thermodynamic theories can be observed, and can be used for constructive purposes, such as providing evidence against evolution (Second law of thermodynamics: entropy always increases; higher chaos does NOT generate species). Evolution, however, is a theory with no formula attached. It can not be used to garner anything of significance.

God Bless,
Noobertuber
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700gb is not online. 700gb
Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 7503
08 May 2012 08:50 PM


Ohhh i see 0_0.
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chris061192 is not online. chris061192
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 4922
08 May 2012 08:51 PM
Search "Great Pacific Garbage Patch" on google.
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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
08 May 2012 08:55 PM
Yes, just because it's a theory doesn't mean it is not true,
yes, it does. anything else is either a hypothesis(sometimes called a theory i.e. string theory) or false.

But don't forget the counterpart: just because it's a theory doesn't mean it is true. There are many legitimate arguments against evolution
no, there really isnt. any arguments against evolution are either imagined or proven false. please watch AronRas "Foundational Falsehoods of Christianity".

It is worth noting that evolution is not the same type of theory as thermodynamics.
i know, just an example.

Thermodynamic theories can be observed, and can be used for constructive purposes, such as providing evidence against evolution (Second law of thermodynamics: entropy always increases; higher chaos does NOT generate species).
(species? you mean order? 2nd LoTD isnt an argument against evolution.)
ok, apparently you never read the whole law. in an open system, matter can only become more and more chaotic.
the thing is, earth is NOT a closed system. we recieve energy from the sun and gravity prevents energy from escaping.

Evolution, however, is a theory with no formula attached. It can not be used to garner anything of significance.
then you obviously know nothing about evolution. please see AronRas videos as i mentioned above, its very eye-opening.
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noobertuber is not online. noobertuber
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Total Posts: 2321
08 May 2012 09:12 PM
"yes, it does. anything else is either a hypothesis(sometimes called a theory i.e. string theory) or false."
Laws are a higher order than theories, are they not? And yet, if a theory was a fact, there would be no need for laws. Besides which, theories have been disprove. Have you ever heard of caloric fluid? (Disproven by Count Rutherford)


"no, there really isnt. any arguments against evolution are either imagined or proven false. please watch AronRas "Foundational Falsehoods of Christianity"."
For this I must apologize. I don't watch videos on you tube. Is there a transcript of this? Or perhaps you could give a rough summary of the points?


"i know, just an example."
And, therefore, an INVALID example.


"(species? you mean order? 2nd LoTD isnt an argument against evolution.)
ok, apparently you never read the whole law. in an open system, matter can only become more and more chaotic.
the thing is, earth is NOT a closed system. we recieve energy from the sun and gravity prevents energy from escaping."
Nope. I mean species. Not that it generates orders or kingdoms either. On to the subject matter: If I used it as an argument, it is an argument. It may be massively flawed, but it is still an argument. I shall assume, until further notice, that you are acting under the most prominent evolutionary theory for the earth's existence: the Big Bang. In essence, you are saying that a gigantic explosion made intelligent, rationalizing creatures.


"then you obviously know nothing about evolution. please see AronRas videos as i mentioned above, its very eye-opening"
Please see other part.


God Bless,
Noobertuber
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Rezdonox is not online. Rezdonox
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 24267
08 May 2012 09:15 PM
Keep in mind that most people here go with whatever the "cool kids" say. Chances are, they don't care.
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ashkiller is not online. ashkiller
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Total Posts: 4106
08 May 2012 09:16 PM
Who says gravity is a theory? It's a law.
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vladmir12 is not online. vladmir12
Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 382
08 May 2012 09:17 PM
Brain hurts
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goof333 is not online. goof333
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 16615
08 May 2012 09:19 PM
Actualy found that interesting, thank you for the break in the stupidity that is all the other threds x3
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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
09 May 2012 03:31 PM
@noobertuber

AronRas video serise is about christianity attempting to create its own science ("Creationism") and pass it off as fact. Many points, including those you pointed out, were clearly explained to be false.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics does not apply to earth because earth is not a closed circuit. We not only have witnessed micro AND macroevolution and the formation of species, but we can trace back humans and other apes to the same common ancestor WITHOUT gaps or "missing links" in the fossil record.
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Chaostic is not online. Chaostic
Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 3438
09 May 2012 03:42 PM
I shall assume, until further notice, that you are acting under the most prominent evolutionary theory for the earth's existence: the Big Bang. In essence, you are saying that a gigantic explosion made intelligent, rationalizing creatures.
__________________________________________________________

INCORRECT ON MANY ACCOUNTS.

1. Evolution and the Big-Bang Theory are UNRELATED topics; many evolutionary biologists believe in an alternate theory and vice versa for astrophysicists.

2. The Big Bang was not an explosion. "Big Bang" originated as an offensive term to the concept, more properly known as central expansion theory.
I believe in the "Big Crunch", the idea that the universe expands to its maximum before gravity pulls it back into the tiny speck stage and the process repeats. Im also confident in the now pending string theory.

The "Big Bang" was not an explosion and it did not occur out of 'nothing'. It was when all of the matter of the universe was compressed into an infinitley dense particle of mass, which became unstable and expanded outwards at lightspeed, until it cooled and condensed into galaxies, stars, planets, and asteroids.

3. In light of that... where did God come from? do you have any better justification? is "god allways existed" any more reasonable than "matter allways existed"?
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DragonOfTime is not online. DragonOfTime
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 56933
09 May 2012 03:47 PM
i just think that the universe is a cycle of big bang + big crunch

it's at least more plausible than an imaginary friend saying 'yo i want a life-bearing planet ok'
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WhiteWhiteRose is not online. WhiteWhiteRose
Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 2016
09 May 2012 03:48 PM
a theery has chickin in the head/feet
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Boeing717 is not online. Boeing717
Top 25 Poster
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 70007
09 May 2012 03:52 PM
the law of universal gravitation is wrong though


whys it called a law if its not correct
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SpeedyTehturtle is not online. SpeedyTehturtle
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 6117
09 May 2012 04:00 PM
"2. The Big Bang was not an explosion. "Big Bang" originated as an offensive term to the concept, more properly known as central expansion theory."

oh my god thank you so much
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sporebnb is not online. sporebnb
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 1042
09 May 2012 04:01 PM
I read this because it's very interesting. I hope a lot will see it.
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skyarex is not online. skyarex
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 12989
09 May 2012 04:02 PM
Look. We all know gravity is real. However, the full EXTENT of gravity is a theory. Additionally, evolution is COMPLETELY theory. We do have evidence of it, but not MERELY as much as gravity.
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firefeind1 is not online. firefeind1
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Total Posts: 51773
09 May 2012 04:02 PM
ogm noobertuber
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