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| 18 Apr 2012 07:15 PM |
The universe had a beginning Anything that had a beginning must have been caused by something else Therefore, the universe was caused by something else (a creator) Every part of the universe is dependent If every part is dependent, then the whole universe must also be dependent Therefore, the whole universe is dependent for existence right now on some Independent Being Every event that had a beginning had a sufficient cause The universe had a beginning Therefore, the universe had a sufficient Cause Every effect has a cause The universe is an effect Therefore, the universe has a Cause An infinite number of moments cannot be traversed If an infinite number of moments had to elapse before today, then today would never have come But today has come Therefore, an infinite number of moments have not elapsed before today (i.e., the universe had a beginning) But whatever has a beginning is caused by something else Hence, there must be a Cause (Creator) of the universe An actual infinite cannot exist An infinite temporal regress of events is an actual infinite Therefore an infinite temporal regress of events cannot exist The temporal series of events is a collection formed by successive addition A collection formed by successive addition cannot be an actual infinite Therefore the temporal series of events cannot be an actual infinite Some things undeniably exist (e.g., I cannot deny my own existence) My nonexistence is possible Whatever has the possibility not to exist is currently caused to exist by another There cannot be an infinite regress of current causes of existence Therefore, a first uncaused cause of my current existence exists This uncaused cause must be infinite, unchanging, all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-perfect This infinitely perfect Being is appropriately called “God” Therefore, God exists This God who exists is identical to the God described in the Christian Scriptures Therefore, the God described in the Bible exists
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mage11561
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| Joined: 03 Sep 2008 |
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:17 PM |
i've stated this before,
in a lot more compact way.
but nice job.
inb4butthurtatheists |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:19 PM |
lol@cheesey
"oh crap logic from a theist! uhh, YOU'RE WRONG!!11!1" |
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:22 PM |
I'm not an atheist, but I could probably challenge that.
How did the creator get here?
The beginning of all that exists can't be proved and can't be used as an argument to prove religions true or false. |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:22 PM |
| the point of a creator is that it is a cause that had no cause. |
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Kanfeh
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:23 PM |
| What created the "Creator" |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:24 PM |
@cheesey,
that means the universe is infinite,
infinities don't exist.
@kanfeh,
"the point of a creator is that it is a cause that had no cause." |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:26 PM |
"Quantum fluctuations caused the big bang. "
quantum fluctuations are caused by warping of space-time at the very small scale,
the big bang created space-time.
so space-time created the thing that created space-time?
yeahno. |
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:26 PM |
>the point of a creator is that it is a cause that had no cause.
That's speculation and imagination. Can't be proven true or false. |
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Twigs180
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| Joined: 10 Mar 2008 |
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:26 PM |
| How do you know the universe was created? How do you know the universe had a beginning? Isn't a void still something? |
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:30 PM |
| The beginning is a question that will remain a question in my opinion. You can believe what you want about how we got here; doesn't matter. Just know that you can never fully prove the theories, one way or the other. |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:39 PM |
@Tyrone,
so essentially, no side is right? Finally someone with brains.
@Jewish,
big bang created space-time, space-time causes quantum fluctuations, and quantum fluctuations created the big bang?
LOGIC, Y U NO EXIST |
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:41 PM |
That was referring to: "Big bang started with the Space-Time in Quantum level size. Fluctuations lead to the expansion of Space-Time into the void, which still continues today."
And, yeah, I'm trying to say that neither side, or whatever other theories people come up with, can't be proven right nor wrong. |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:44 PM |
Well I can prove his theory wrong, because according to it, there was no space-time before the big bang.
Is that sufficient, or do I need to probe my memory banks to remember the whole theory that you believe in?
I know a fair amount of the quantum theories for the origin of the universe, from reading. |
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mage11561
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| 18 Apr 2012 07:46 PM |
Jewish you don't even know your own theory.
Alright, let ME clear up some things:
1) Super force has FOUR forces, not 3: Weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force, electromagnetism, gravity.
2) The HYPERINFLATION stage of the big bang inflated space-time, the big bang created space-time and matter/anti-matter BEFORE that.
3) quantum-fluctuations are caused by the warping of space-time at sub-atomic sizes (that's an understatement too...) so they couldn't of caused the thing that created space-time.
Now, you need any clearing up there?
Because I can bet you I'm more well read on this than you are. |
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