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Re: The Scripters forum desperately needs more moderation

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sncplay42 is not online. sncplay42
Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 11891
31 Oct 2010 02:44 PM
The Scripters forum is intended for discussing topics about ROBLOX scripting *that aren't help requests*, and requests for help should be posted in the Scripting Helpers forum. But in reality this is happening:

- People are missing the Scripting Helpers forum and posting their help requests in Scripters. This is understandable. Only the description of Scripters even mentions that help shouldn't be there. There isn't even a rules sticky at the moment, so people can be totally unaware that they're doing anything wrong.

- People are posting about programming languages other than ROBLOX Lua. There used to be a pinned post specifically forbidding this, but if the rule still applies it's being ignored. It's not really discussing other languages that's the big problem, but what definitely is is that people are arguing about it.

- Moderation in the Scripters forum ranges from scarce to inexistent. Reporting misplaced threads requesting that they be moved or deleted *sometimes* works, but the problem continues. I'm not sure whether this is because threads aren't being reported often enough or because the moderators aren't clear on the specific rules for Scripters. This was definitely much better in the days of the old forum moderators, as xLEGOx and Anaminus were regular readers of the forum and would lock or move any misplaced threads they saw. Without them, however, the Scripters forum rules just aren't being enforced.

- The biggest problem: with misplaced threads and no moderation presence, the scripters are taking the rules into their own hands. This just doesn't work, for a number of reasons. Scripters' responses to misplaced threads are rarely polite. Someone who has misplaced a thread understandably sees no good reason to obey posts from fellow users, especially if they're not polite, but even if they are, because they don't see anything official telling them what they did was wrong, so it's no surprise that they dismiss these responses as trolling. As a result, misplaced threads often turn into flame wars that aren't helpful either to the person seeking help or the scripters who want their forum free of misplaced threads.


As a result, a forum that should be a place for polite discussion of ROBLOX scripting has become a place filled with misplaced and off-topic threads and a far from polite atmosphere. Things need to change. So here are some suggestions:


- A rules sticky that makes it totally clear what is and isn't allowed in Scripters and what should be posted in Scripting Helpers instead. Make the difference between SH and Scripters completely obvious. Putting the two in their own section right next to each other would help people see the difference and prevent them from accidentally post help requests in Scripters.

- Make it clear whether talking about other programming languages is allowed so the arguments can stop.

- Make sure rules in Scripters are properly enforced, so scripters don't feel the need to do it themselves. Getting a moderator to check it every now and then would be helpful. People handling reports should know the rules about what is allowed in Scripters and how to solve the problems if they don't already.

- Make it totally clear to scripters how they should respond to a misplaced thread, e.g. ignore it, help anyway or report it asking it to be moved to SH. Threatening to warn/ban scripters who make impolite responses and turn the threads into flame wars would be understandable in my opinion.

- Merging SH and Scripters together would be acceptable as a last resort - the resulting forum would be preferable to the current state of Scripters if the above suggestions don't work.


If these suggestions were followed then I'm sure the Scripters forum would be a much better place for everyone.

TL;DR: see title
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nazer1290 is not online. nazer1290
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Total Posts: 5994
31 Oct 2010 02:46 PM
Agreed.
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pivotmaster101 is not online. pivotmaster101
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Total Posts: 228
31 Oct 2010 02:46 PM
Looks like you spent some time on this, hopefully it will be noticed.
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pighead10 is not online. pighead10
Joined: 03 May 2009
Total Posts: 10341
31 Oct 2010 02:49 PM
Agreed.
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Einnel is not online. Einnel
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 147
31 Oct 2010 03:05 PM
Right.
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ToaHeroLewa13 is not online. ToaHeroLewa13
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 16962
31 Oct 2010 03:11 PM
Support.

Very written, and with nice structure too :P
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ToaHeroLewa13 is not online. ToaHeroLewa13
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 16962
31 Oct 2010 03:12 PM
*Very well written
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nazer1290 is not online. nazer1290
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Total Posts: 5994
31 Oct 2010 03:27 PM
@Toa

Unlike your post. =P

Hehe, just messin'.
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sncplay42 is not online. sncplay42
Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 11891
31 Oct 2010 03:58 PM
Bump.
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pighead10 is not online. pighead10
Joined: 03 May 2009
Total Posts: 10341
31 Oct 2010 04:00 PM
have I already posted here
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pighead10 is not online. pighead10
Joined: 03 May 2009
Total Posts: 10341
31 Oct 2010 04:00 PM
yes, i have, darn
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rachetandclank2 is not online. rachetandclank2
Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Total Posts: 10812
31 Oct 2010 04:00 PM
Agreed.

I have a look on there often and I see alot of request threads and people getting the wrong idea.
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Varp is not online. Varp
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 5333
31 Oct 2010 04:13 PM
I agree. I haven't been on for a few months, but occasionally I get linked to the scripters forum by my friends, and even from the brief glimpses I see of it, it's flaws are huge. I agree fully with what you have said, but I would also suggest making rules against redundant posts, which also seem to be a problem.
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Legend26 is not online. Legend26
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 10586
31 Oct 2010 04:58 PM
Agree.
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pokelover980 is not online. pokelover980
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 4141
31 Oct 2010 05:08 PM
Agreed. Ever since the sticky fell the forum has been in chaos, and even before that it was in chaos because of the lack of volunteer mods who actually browsed the forum and took care of problems.
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ChaosStar95 is not online. ChaosStar95
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Total Posts: 5943
31 Oct 2010 05:18 PM
Agreed.
A similar issue is developing in the Scripting Helpers forum; people are requesting for things to be made completely instead of asking for simple fixes. Also, they're starting to talk of other scripting languages like C++ and Python. We need stickies about these things both in the Scripters and in the Scripting Helpers forum.
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SnapTheBlueChalkGuy is not online. SnapTheBlueChalkGuy
Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 1284
31 Oct 2010 05:21 PM
Scripters desperatly need a place to not be annoyed by thousands of requests.
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64runners is not online. 64runners
Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 1394
31 Oct 2010 05:22 PM
+1000

This is a great idea.
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xSIXx is not online. xSIXx
Joined: 06 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 9202
31 Oct 2010 05:25 PM
JA
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B3tturTh3nU is not online. B3tturTh3nU
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 6574
31 Oct 2010 05:37 PM
Bump of support...
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miloguy is not online. miloguy
Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 7702
31 Oct 2010 06:10 PM
Support :D
"It's not really discussing other languages that's the big problem, but what definitely is is that people are arguing about it. " Agreed.

Putting SH and Scripters right next to eachother actually seems like a pretty good idea. That way instead of people only finding the Scripters forum, people would find both. Scripter Helpers has the word "Help" in it so it's more likely to be clicked. They problem of people accidentally clicking the forum underneath really isn't that much of a problem. I've only seen 1 thread that was supposed to be in C&G here.
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Varp is not online. Varp
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 5333
31 Oct 2010 06:11 PM
"Scripters desperatly need a place to not be annoyed by thousands of requests."

I agree with that statement, but it doesn't apply here. It's too black-and-white. The optimal solution to this might be to merge the Scripting Helpers & Scripters forum, and moderate that forum better. I mean, right now, you've got the people who know what their doing, and the people who don't in two entirely different places, and now the people who know what they're doing are becoming elitist, and hostile towards those who ask them about things 'below them'. Perhaps make a forum (or make it clear which forum should be used) for scripting requests.

I made this account mostly to help new scripters, but after a while, I got fed up with the non-scripters making requests, where I really wanted to help the aspiring scripters fix their scripts, or answer questions. What should be separated is scripters, and non-scripters, not elite scripters, and everyone else.

Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but great scripters really don't have all that much to talk about. I mean, they all know Lua really well, and Lua's scripting and most of the scripters are young and inexperienced so optimization is not going to come up. I think I helped someone with algorithms & optimization once over an entire year. Very small. New techniques for scripting (a.k.a. hacks) could come up, but the ugly code that Lua has is, in general, useless. Exploits are against the rules for good reason. Libraries people have written to facilitate scripting can come up, but these are usually pretty useless. The ROBLOX API is pretty good on it's own. Scripting projects & collaborations can come up, but these usually don't finish, so they're really just posts saying "Hey look what I can do!" then never have a product. So what's that leave? Well, it leaves bragging, complaining, flaming, and very little scripting.

So, really, what's the point of having a scripters forum?
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Arthur123 is not online. Arthur123
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 5347
31 Oct 2010 06:23 PM
My thoughts exactly with Varp; but some people say that 'don't ruin it for those that want to have a scripting forum'. Which is a radical few... but still, a voice(s).

/DoomyjustpostedinScriptersForum:/
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MrNicNac is not online. MrNicNac
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 26567
31 Oct 2010 06:28 PM
The Scripters forum should be removed. It is useless and isn't a gain to anything. Scripting Helpers is a great place for learning and for any level of help. Why keep a useless forum?
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blobbyblob is not online. blobbyblob
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 12165
31 Oct 2010 07:03 PM
Agreed with MrNicNac and Varp.

Remove it! Then we might be forced to help out new users if we want to discuss scripting. >:P
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