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Re: Israel is not expanding its borders...

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tomato12 is not online. tomato12
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 4053
04 Mar 2012 08:24 AM
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RobloxMaurader is not online. RobloxMaurader
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 159
04 Mar 2012 08:27 AM
lets debate
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
04 Mar 2012 08:27 AM
The US was created without the west of the mississippi.


Problem?
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RobloxMaurader is not online. RobloxMaurader
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 159
04 Mar 2012 08:28 AM
there was no people living west of it just some native species
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
04 Mar 2012 08:29 AM
the Federal Republic of Germany was created without Eastern Germany
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
04 Mar 2012 08:52 AM
"...and with giza along with the Sinai desert"

No...
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sil4nc3r1223 is not online. sil4nc3r1223
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 883
04 Mar 2012 10:19 AM
@Tomato
Retaliate if you want. But what what happens when you launch white phosphorus (which is highly flammable) onto well populated areas? Lets see...
highly flammable smokescreen + loads of people = ???
What happens when you bulldoze houses and kill people justifying it with the fact that your defending yourself?
They'll just fight back!
So one of you should stop fighting or this will keep going on and innocent people (Israelis and Palestinains) will die!
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Yobobo10 is not online. Yobobo10
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 3711
04 Mar 2012 11:43 AM
If it's not up for debate, then you did you post this?
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AltGrimReaper is not online. AltGrimReaper
Joined: 29 May 2011
Total Posts: 1193
04 Mar 2012 06:11 PM
Good and evil don't exist, but neither should Israel.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:13 PM
Good and evil don't exist
___
Please stop using these strawman. Of course good and evil don't literally exist and no one thinks they do.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:14 PM
*this not these
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AltGrimReaper is not online. AltGrimReaper
Joined: 29 May 2011
Total Posts: 1193
04 Mar 2012 06:17 PM
>Please stop using these strawman. Of course good and evil don't literally exist and no one thinks they do.

I'm saying much more than "Good and evil don't exist physically." I'm saying that there is no objective good and evil.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:18 PM
But what what happens when you launch white phosphorus (which is highly flammable) onto well populated areas? Lets see...
highly flammable smokescreen + loads of people = ???
___
White phosphorus very rarely actually kills people. It's a completely legal smokescreen under international law, tons of countries other than Israel have used it, and Israel banned it in 2010 after the media outcry.

What happens when you bulldoze houses
___
Bulldozes houses that have no legal right to be there.

and kill people justifying it with the fact that your defending yourself?
___
Well, yeah, they are defending themselves when they kill people.
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AltGrimReaper is not online. AltGrimReaper
Joined: 29 May 2011
Total Posts: 1193
04 Mar 2012 06:19 PM
>Bulldozes houses that have no legal right to be there.

Rights that the Israelis enforce and define*
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AltGrimReaper is not online. AltGrimReaper
Joined: 29 May 2011
Total Posts: 1193
04 Mar 2012 06:19 PM
And I should remind you that the whole legal rights BS is exactly what was used by English settlers to remove American Indians from their land.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:20 PM
I'm saying much more than "Good and evil don't exist physically." I'm saying that there is no objective good and evil.
___
And again, no one thinks that either. People do think that there are some principles so overwhelmingly obvious that everybody should follow them (murder, theft) but nobody thinks they're objective, observable facts.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:21 PM
Rights that the Israelis enforce and define*
___
But they could easily build there if they just got a permit.

And I should remind you that the whole legal rights BS is exactly what was used by English settlers to remove American Indians from their land.
___
Communism has been used to justify the Soviet Union and China, but you also try to use it to justify whatever utopia you believe in. That's a fallacious argument.
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AltGrimReaper is not online. AltGrimReaper
Joined: 29 May 2011
Total Posts: 1193
04 Mar 2012 06:27 PM
>And again, no one thinks that either.

Then we're in complete agreement.

>Communism has been used to justify the Soviet Union and China, but you also try to use it to justify whatever utopia you believe in. That's a fallacious argument.

I don't use communism to justify communism. Neither did the Soviets. I fail to see how my argument is fallacious.

>But they could easily build there if they just got a permit.

That isn't the way the system works. Many of the houses being bulldozed are in "open landscape areas," where building is forbidden.

http://www.btselem.org/jerusalem/discriminating_policy
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:35 PM
I don't use communism to justify communism. Neither did the Soviets. I fail to see how my argument is fallacious.
___
Comparing two completely different situations. You say you want communism. The Soviets say they wanted Communism. Is it fair to say they you want what the Soviets got, because you both say you want communism?

Then again. Both the Israelis and the English settlers say they were upholding the laws. Is it fair to say that the Israelis want what the English settlers, because they both say they want to uphold the law?

That isn't the way the system works. Many of the houses being bulldozed are in "open landscape areas," where building is forbidden.
___
You just said "building is forbidden" in these areas. Why is it a shock that their house is illegal?
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AltGrimReaper is not online. AltGrimReaper
Joined: 29 May 2011
Total Posts: 1193
04 Mar 2012 06:43 PM
>Comparing two completely different situations

You mean exactly what you just did? Both the Israelis and the English settlers used legal rights, things they created and defined, to take land away from indigenous populations. You're the one comparing one scenario to a totally different one.

>The Soviets say they wanted Communism. Is it fair to say they you want what the Soviets got, because you both say you want communism?

Of course not, but I'm not using legal rights to justify expropriation of land.

>Then again. Both the Israelis and the English settlers say they were upholding the laws. Is it fair to say that the Israelis want what the English settlers, because they both say they want to uphold the law?

That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I'll repeat myself, though; both the English settlers and the Israelis have used the concept of legal rights to take land away from indigenous populations. The result has been the same. Indigenous populations have been, or are now being removed, from land that belonged to them.

>You just said "building is forbidden" in these areas. Why is it a shock that their house is illegal?

It's like everything I've said was lost on you. The Palestinians built their houses there before building there had become forbidden.
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
04 Mar 2012 06:54 PM
You mean exactly what you just did? Both the Israelis and the English settlers used legal rights, things they created and defined, to take land away from indigenous populations. You're the one comparing one scenario to a totally different one.
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I compared two different situations because YOU did. The English settlers were moving into a land that they had no connection to and killing or otherwise forcing Natives off of the land. THe early Jewish immigrants bought most of the land from the Palestinians, and even accepted a partition plan wherein they received only 20% of what is today Israel and the Palestinian territories. This would have solved the conflict YEARS ago. The Arabs rejected this. Years later came the second partition proposal, which again, the Israelis accepted, and the Arabs rejected. This would have solved the conflict years ago.

Of course not, but I'm not using legal rights to justify expropriation of land.
___
You're taking this from a communist point of view, and that's as far as this debate can go without debating the merits of private property.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I'll repeat myself, though; both the English settlers and the Israelis have used the concept of legal rights to take land away from indigenous populations. The result has been the same. Indigenous populations have been, or are now being removed, from land that belonged to them.
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I know it had nothing to do with what you're saying. I was pointing out how you were just using the classic tactic of comparing it to some historical evil.

It's like everything I've said was lost on you. The Palestinians built their houses there before building there had become forbidden.
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But you do realize, the evictions of Arab peoples from homes was due to the fact that Jordan evicted the Jewish residents of those homes when they conquered the West Bank.
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Candymaniac is not online. Candymaniac
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 8985
04 Mar 2012 09:03 PM
"Ever since then, Israel has tried to get GAZA back by invading BECAUSE terrorists are in there shooting rockets at innocent Israelis."

That's just stupid. That's not true. Israel controls palestinian borders; they put innocent palestinians in custody and torture them; white phosphorous is ILLEGAL and a CRIME OF WAR. Yet, do they care? Noo.
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tomato12 is not online. tomato12
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 4053
05 Mar 2012 06:32 PM
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
05 Mar 2012 06:46 PM
both sides have done bad things, and have bad people representing them, while most of the people are actually good kind people just worried about living.
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EpicWinMatt2 is not online. EpicWinMatt2
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 830
05 Mar 2012 06:46 PM
What does White Phosphorous do to people?
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