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Re: (Towards Americans) If we are a secular nation...

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magnostreak is not online. magnostreak
Joined: 14 May 2008
Total Posts: 1084
13 Feb 2012 08:31 PM
Why do we let religious values such as h_0_0mo marriages and 4b0rt10n be illegal? YOU may be a christian, but the lady down the street trying to get an 4b0rt10n might not be. Why does it even matter to you? and those two men over there, if they wanna get married, what's stopping them? Why can't you just mind your own business? They never did anything to you.
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mage11561 is not online. mage11561
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 13217
13 Feb 2012 08:34 PM
@bortion isn't just a religious matter.

And gray marriage is legal in NY and some other states.
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cowkiller is not online. cowkiller
Joined: 03 May 2008
Total Posts: 4193
13 Feb 2012 08:35 PM
Because they like to feel empowered and above the "lesser" people. My problem with most religious people now a days is the heaven and hell thing. People to me seem to be just supporting religion for the fact they want to go to heaven. I also have a problem with the fact that those people say others are going to hell for being this or that. Now I'm pretty sure if god exists or not that he would decide and not you.
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TheRavager is not online. TheRavager
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Total Posts: 562
13 Feb 2012 08:45 PM
Some people just don't like killing babies (I wouldn't blame them) It has nothing to do with religion.
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cowkiller is not online. cowkiller
Joined: 03 May 2008
Total Posts: 4193
13 Feb 2012 08:46 PM
^
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sinii is not online. sinii
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 15218
13 Feb 2012 09:09 PM
A non-American has posted. Contain your rages.
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mage11561 is not online. mage11561
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 13217
13 Feb 2012 09:39 PM
Well the other thread on @bortion got deleted....



I'LL CONTINUE IT HERE.

Just because a developing child does not have the ability to reason doesn't mean that they should be unprotected against murder.

Vegetables can't feel emotion, move, or think, AKA they have LESS functions than a fetus, yet they can live.

People with psychological disorders who can't feel emotion, should they be killed?

And another point, if a woman has the "right to choose" if their child is to be killed or not because they are nurturing it, why does that "right" not extend past birth?

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sinii is not online. sinii
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 15218
13 Feb 2012 11:15 PM
That's different. A developing child or a certain people with disorders have experienced things. Unlike a fetus. And other people would be affected by their death. A fetus is likely not cared for as its mother does not want it to be born. A child or a sociopath have family and friends. Now, a fetus doesn't have family and friends, so no one would cry over a fetus's death.

Vegetables are not humans. We don't treat any animal better than we treat ourselves. It's like inequality between humans and all other living things. Why should we treat vegetables any better than we treat other animals?

Fetuses are much less important than born children. A fetus has no feelings, but a child does. And if the mother has the choice to kill her offspring after birth, it would affect other people. And then there would have to be a funeral. And so on...

Wait! By disagreeing with аbоrtion, are you implying that dead fetuses must get funerals? Like any other human that dies? They don't, because no one cares for a fetus, and the funeral would be a huge waste of money. A woman goes through unwanted prеgnancy, takes an аbоrtion, and then has to pay for a funeral. You know how expensive those are? Just imagine that!

Fetuses can't have equal rights. Giving human rights to a fetus is like giving human rights to an animal. They won't use it properly, won't even know they have it. Because they're utterly clueless. They won't thank us for rights, none of that.

Plus, if аbоrtion is killing, then spеrms that can't fertilize eggs because they have been misplaced is like wasting a human. They would be either in a соndоm or a fарkin... things like that. Technically, that would be killing humans. So why aren't рrеmaturе еjаculаtion, mаsturbаtion, соndоms, and birth contrоl pills illegal?
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cowkiller is not online. cowkiller
Joined: 03 May 2008
Total Posts: 4193
14 Feb 2012 04:24 AM
A non-American has posted. Contain your rages.
> world wide forum
I'll Choose where I post and not why thank you.
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sinii is not online. sinii
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 15218
14 Feb 2012 08:59 AM
"> world wide forum
I'll Choose where I post and not why thank you."

This thread is towards Americans, and I was referring to myself as a non-American.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 09:07 AM
" A fetus has no feelings, but a child does."

Explain me the fundamental difference that appears seconds after and before birth that causes babies to have feelings.

"And if the mother has the choice to kill her offspring after birth, it would affect other people."

? Why doesn't that happen before birth?

"And then there would have to be a funeral."

After the youknowwhat you also need to get rid of the fetus...

"Fetuses can't have equal rights. Giving human rights to a fetus is like giving human rights to an animal. They won't use it properly, won't even know they have it. Because they're utterly clueless. They won't thank us for rights, none of that."

How is that any different from a baby who has just been born?

About that last paragraph (I don't quote it since I want to be sure the filter won't block it). Let me ask you a question too, why is killing babies illegal?

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
14 Feb 2012 09:13 AM
>Explain me the fundamental difference that appears seconds after and before birth that causes babies to have feelings.
-------------------
If we are talking seconds there is none. If we are talking early development to birth there is a BIG difference. In the early stages there is no nervous system, during birth there is.

>How is that any different from a baby who has just been born?
-----------------
Technically no child in America has full rights until they are 18.

>About that last paragraph (I don't quote it since I want to be sure the filter won't block it). Let me ask you a question too, why is killing babies illegal?
-------------------
It should be up to the person, not the government or the majority.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 09:18 AM
"If we are talking seconds there is none."

That's the point.

"Technically no child in America has full rights until they are 18."

Completely irrelevant.

"It should be up to the person, not the government or the majority."
 
Precisely, why should anyone have any decition regarding the fetus other than the fetus itself?

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
14 Feb 2012 09:24 AM
>That's the point.
----
I believe you can't have an @bortion seconds before birth.


>Completely irrelevant.
-------
No it was completely relevant since part of the discussion were the rights of the fetus.


>Precisely, why should anyone have any decition regarding the fetus other than the fetus itself?
------
Because its mother is carrying it for 9 months.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 09:48 AM
"I believe you can't have an @bor tion seconds before birth."

Remember that while the fet us is certainly different just before bi rth to what it was a few weeks before, it is still very similar.

http:
//www.
preg
nancy.o
rg/fet
aldeve
lopment/week-12

Look at the text and the second picture.

"No it was completely relevant since part of the discussion were the rights of the fetus."

A child has a right to life, that's the only right I'm talking about.

"Because its mother is carrying it for 9 mo nths."

And she is also completely responsible for that it is there (except in cases of raep, in which I do support @bor tion).

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
14 Feb 2012 09:53 AM
>(except in cases of raep, in which I do support @bor tion)
-------------
But what about THAT fetuses right to life?
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TheRealCommander is not online. TheRealCommander
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 9068
14 Feb 2012 09:57 AM
I find it contradicting to declare aborlol to be murder except in cases of raep, as that would be like saying the children of raepist dont have the right to live
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
14 Feb 2012 09:59 AM
That is what it is saying. It's kinda like outlawing knives unless they are the color blue.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 10:00 AM
"But what about THAT fetuses right to life?"

You yourself said it, the mother has to carry it, and since it's not her fault she should not be held accountable.

"I find it contradicting to declare aborlol to be murder except in cases of raep, as that would be like saying the children of raepist dont have the right to live"

The problem arises because it's not the mothers fault that the fe tus is there.

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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TheRealCommander is not online. TheRealCommander
Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 9068
14 Feb 2012 10:02 AM
What if protection failed and they didnt notice? Its not the mothers fault then is it?
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 10:03 AM
That's a different case, and no, it is not her fault.

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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DrCaneJralt2 is not online. DrCaneJralt2
Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 1126
14 Feb 2012 10:07 AM
>You yourself said it, the mother has to carry it, and since it's not her fault she should not be held accountable
---------
So? The fetus (according to you) has a right to life. Why does that change under a specific circumstance?
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 10:09 AM
Because in one case the mother is responsible and in the other she isn't.

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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DrCaneJralt2 is not online. DrCaneJralt2
Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 1126
14 Feb 2012 10:12 AM
>Because in one case the mother is responsible and in the other she isn't.
--------
So what if she is having certain interactions with the guy wearing a rubber then it breaks. Technically she isn't responsible so she can have a certain operation on the fetus?
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
14 Feb 2012 10:21 AM
I just addressed that...

"With the abolition of private property, then, we shall have true, beautiful, healthy Individualism. Nobody will waste his life in accumulating things, and the symbols for things. One will live. To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde
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