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Re: According to my History teacher this is what communism is.

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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
02 Feb 2012 05:34 PM
The government having complete control over the citizens lives and the economy. What do you guys think of his description?
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 05:38 PM
herpa derp

The government -if there is one-, would not take part of the economy and would not necessarily be socially authoritarian.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
02 Feb 2012 05:40 PM
His definition is actually from my textbook O.O I'm pretty sure in Communism everyone is equal... there would be no government...
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 05:44 PM
It's the aim.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
02 Feb 2012 05:46 PM
Well my history teacher is openly a social engineer so doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
02 Feb 2012 06:39 PM
Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.
However, I would have given a more of a description, like what it was suppose to do, and what it actually does and how the function of communism cant work.
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zct35 is not online. zct35
Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 155
02 Feb 2012 06:42 PM
No one knows what communism is because they never bothered to look it up.
More at 11.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
02 Feb 2012 06:42 PM
Thats what they all say.

I read Marx's book

Its a complete ant total farce.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
02 Feb 2012 06:43 PM
*and
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Avogadro is not online. Avogadro
Joined: 14 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 4011
02 Feb 2012 06:47 PM
I wasn't taught the real definition of communism until freshman year.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 06:50 PM
"I read Marx's book
Its a complete ant total farce."

1) Which one?
2) Why do you think that?
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
02 Feb 2012 07:08 PM
Government cant just go away.

You need government to defend the rights of the people, and defend them against those who seek to abuse it.

Also, according to human nature, you cant make an entire population 'share' everything.

When we buy things, there is a reason why the cashier say's 'thank you' before you leave.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
02 Feb 2012 07:10 PM
No one needs a government, government are the people who will oppress the rights of the people.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 07:18 PM
"Government cant just go away.
You need government to defend the rights of the people, and defend them against those who seek to abuse it."

We have been able to live without a government.

"Also, according to human nature, you cant make an entire population 'share' everything."

Yes, you can, and it might even be in the people's self-interest to do so (an essay I'm reading, called "The Gift" by Marcel Mauss is about that, although if the Wikipedia article is right it also says that altruism is present too).
There are examples of gift economies, if fact, even parts of OWS use a gift economy, as shown by grim.
Another essay I read ("Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology", by David Graeber, which is where I learned about Mauss' book) gives the example of Tsimihety people in Madagascar, who have managed to avoid the Malagasy government and achieve a strong egalitarianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragments_of_an_Anarchist_Anthropology
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 07:32 PM
I'll quote part of that last essay.

For anarchists who do know something about
anthropology, the arguments are all too familiar. A
typical exchange goes something like this:

Skeptic: Well, I might take this whole anarchism
idea more seriously if you could give me
some reason to think it would work. Can you name
me a single viable example of a society which has
existed without a government?

Anarchist: Sure. There have been thousands. I
could name a dozen just off the top of my head: the
Bororo, the Baining, the Onondaga, the Wintu, the
Ema, the Tallensi, the Vezo...

Skeptic: But those are all a bunch of primitives!
I’m talking about anarchism in a modern,
technological society.

Anarchist: Okay, then. There have been all
sorts of successful experiments: experiments with
worker’s self-management, like Mondragon;
economic projects based on the idea of the gift
economy, like Linux; all sorts of political organizations
based on consensus and direct democracy...

Skeptic: Sure, sure, but these are small, isolated
examples. I’m talking about whole societies.

Anarchist: Well, it’s not like people haven’t
tried. Look at the Paris Commune, the revolution
in Republican Spain...

Skeptic: Yeah, and look what happened to
those guys! They all got killed!

The dice are loaded. You can’t win. Because
when the skeptic says “society,” what he really means
is “state,” even “nation-state.” Since no one is going to
produce an example of an anarchist state—that would
be a contradiction in terms—what we’re really being
asked for is an example of a modern nation-state with
the government somehow plucked away: a situation in
which the government of Canada, to take a random
example, has been overthrown, or for some reason
abolished itself, and no new one has taken its place but
instead all former Canadian citizens begin to organize
themselves into libertarian collectives. Obviously this
would never be allowed to happen. In the past, whenever
it even looked like it might—here, the Paris
commune and Spanish civil war are excellent examples—
the politicians running pretty much every state
in the vicinity have been willing to put their differences
on hold until those trying to bring such a situation
about had been rounded up and shot.

There is a way out, which is to accept that
anarchist forms of organization would not look
anything like a state. That they would involve an
endless variety of communities, associations,
networks, projects, on every conceivable scale, overlapping
and intersecting in any way we could imagine,
and possibly many that we can’t.
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MahPizzaIsHere is not online. MahPizzaIsHere
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 7707
02 Feb 2012 07:41 PM
Pepper, Marx was an economic genius. While he was wrong on many counts, he was right on others. That sound you hear every time a depression or recession hits is Marx quietly chuckling in his grave. If you notice that the median wage in the US is some $6,000 below GDP, that's him as well.

Marx the revolutionary was an idiot who didn't realize that capitalism was good for the poor. A distressed Engles pointed that out to him on several occasions, but no matter. But Marx the Economist made several interesting contributions, none of which should be disregarded.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 07:44 PM
"Marx the revolutionary was an idiot who didn't realize that capitalism was good for the poor."

You obviously do not know nothing about the world in which he lived.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 07:56 PM
Another excerpt:

This of course brings up the “who
will do the dirty jobs?” question—one which
always gets thrown at anarchists or other utopians.
Peter Kropotkin long ago pointed out the fallacy
of the argument. There’s no particular reason dirty
jobs have to exist. If one divided up the unpleasant
tasks equally, that would mean all the world’s top
scientists and engineers would have to do them
too; one could expect the creation of self-cleaning
kitchens and coal-mining robots almost immediately.

___
Unbelievable genious!
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
02 Feb 2012 07:58 PM
"We have been able to live without a government."

Since when?

The most prosperous people that have ever lived has had a government. A constitution that establishes the rights of the people, and elected member of a legislature can represent both the majority and minorities equally. Therefore a republic, being the best form of government and is the only one successful. It is working for the following countries (including constitutional monarchies that have its monarch as a figurehead);

Iceland
Ireland
Switzerland
United States
Denmark
Canada
Costa Rica
South Korea
Sweden
Mauritius
Belgium
Austria
New Zealand
Australia
Norway
Finland
Germany
Malta
Czech republic
Netherlands
Luxembourg
Japan
Spain
United Kingdom
France
Cape Verde
Greece
Slovenia
South Africa
Cape Verde
Italy
Chile
Estonia
Israel
Taiwan
Portugal
Lithuania
India
Slovakia
Poland
Jamaica
Hungary
Brazil
Cyprus
Botswana
Panama
Mexico
Argentina
Croatia
Trinidad and Tobago
Latvia


The rest are just clear flat out authoritarian regimes that just use the word 'republic' for name purposes only.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
02 Feb 2012 08:00 PM
The thing I find funny is that almost all of these places are failing terribly. Anarchy has existed in many countries. Libya, Egypt (was an anarchy), Somalia, etc.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 08:02 PM
http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=62190878
There I talked about prosperity.

P.S: I feel offended that you mentioned Argentina but not Uruguay.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
02 Feb 2012 08:12 PM
There is only chaos, no order. Death and suffering is all over Libya and Egypt and the countries in the Arab Spring

These people dont even know how to make a perfect transition from Dictatorship to freedom.


Anarchy = highway to new dictatorship, not freedom

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MahPizzaIsHere is not online. MahPizzaIsHere
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 7707
02 Feb 2012 08:13 PM
"Marx the revolutionary was an idiot who didn't realize that capitalism was good for the poor."

You obviously do not know nothing about the world in which he lived.
________________

As always, you make an excellent point. I should have considered the historical perspective more, although Engles did have enough perspective to realize that Marx could be wrong.

In either case, my hyperbole wasn't warranted. While I do know something about the time in which he lived, I certainly didn't apply that knowledge.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 08:14 PM
"Anarchy = highway to new dictatorship, not freedom"

I'm not even going to bother.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
02 Feb 2012 08:15 PM
Oh please, don't pretend that government doesn't want more power. Look at the difference in the USA from The 1800's to now. It's disgusting.

Government = Tyrants and oppression, not protections.

Those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve neither.
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