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Re: Found XieXies comments on why Communism cannot work...

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thepit44 is not online. thepit44
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 21143
31 Jan 2012 09:49 PM
http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=23289276

3rd post
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Branch14 is not online. Branch14
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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01 Feb 2012 05:46 AM
Thanks once again.
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History011 is not online. History011
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 620
01 Feb 2012 08:02 AM
No. 1: Free Will & Human Nature

First of all, this is based on they idea that being in the commune is not something voluntary, at least in my idea of communism that would not be true.
The second thing is about that desire to achieve above the others. I could just say that this has hardly ever been a problem in the actual communist places of the world, but I won't. What you are forgetting here is that there is another factor, namely, friendliness.

People have a desire to do good things, to say otherwise is to show that you know nothing about humans. This desire has different extents among different populations, but it exist in all of them, and as the time people spend together passes this would only increase. For example, look at soldiers, they are much more willing to die for each other after having fought together before.

It is important to note here that the revolution -if there is one, I hope that the first communes can be created peacefully- would not be the first step towards a communist society. Previous to it there would have to be a huge process to change the people's ideologies, increase worker ownership of the means of production, decrease the importance of the city, which is a bulwark against cooperation, etc. Marx himself supported this, he had the idea of a transition stage between his "higher" Communism and Capitalism, this stage is Socialism, or "Lower" Communism.
If that is not enough, you must remember one thing:
If a successful world revolution were to happen, any other kind of societies would be destroyed and those who are selfish would have to go to the communes for their own gain, but those people would become more cooperative over time.

No. 2: The Economic Issues

Here XieXie makes 2 important assumptions:

A- More material = Better standards of living (for most this is only true to up certain point, the main thread is http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=61937966 ).
B- Robots are not present.

Another thing which confused me is why didn't he explain how doesn't this happen in Capitalism, which was the first thing to come to my mind after reading it.

No. 3: "Fairness" and Natural Selection

This section has the problem of being limited to just one of many versions of Communism.

About failure:
All I expect in my idea of Communism is that people will have more free time, if you want to spend that time trying to achieve new things -and failing-, you can do it. In fact, since you would have more free time you'd be able to do it for more time.

About how you can't be a Communist and believe in evolution:
Natural Selection only forces us to be able to survive, not necessarily become the greatest species in the entire world, although even the primitive Communist villages and tribes were already the greatest.
The book you need to read on this subject is "Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution", I have already shown an excerpt from that book before.

No. 4: Universal Requirements

I'll ignore this for as long as point 2 is disputed, since I don't really care about the Warsaw Pact.

Something I'd like to point out here is that while I was reading On The Origin of The Species, I found one sentence saying something along the lines of: For creatures like ants and bees cooperation was what allowed them to succeed.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
02 Feb 2012 05:21 PM
"Marx himself supported this, he had the idea of a transition stage between his "higher" Communism and Capitalism, this stage is Socialism, or "Lower" Communism."

I was not paying attention when I wrote this, Socialism would start after the revolution. Fortunately this is in my favour, because that means there will be 2 transition stages, which aid the preparation of the world for Communism.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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02 Feb 2012 05:21 PM
I would have fixed that before but I was permabanned.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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02 Feb 2012 08:14 PM
I'll bump this since you logged in again.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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03 Feb 2012 05:08 PM
Can you reply now?
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Branch14 is not online. Branch14
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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03 Feb 2012 05:30 PM
I don't have my sources atm.. So it wouldn't be very good.

INB4TWIGSCOMESINANDSAYSSOMETHINGSTUPID.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
03 Feb 2012 05:33 PM
Then prepare those sources.
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Branch14 is not online. Branch14
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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03 Feb 2012 05:34 PM
I would, But I am getting a new computer tomorrow..
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
03 Feb 2012 05:37 PM
I can wait, it's not like we didn't do that here.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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03 Feb 2012 05:37 PM
*don't*
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thepit44 is not online. thepit44
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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04 Feb 2012 07:44 AM
Bump
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
04 Feb 2012 07:46 AM
Nobody is going to see it now anyways.
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MahPizzaIsHere is not online. MahPizzaIsHere
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
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04 Feb 2012 08:15 AM
Bump of assistance.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
04 Feb 2012 08:17 AM
Stop bumbing and reply! *RAGE*

@Mah

Now that logged in reply to this thread:
http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=62389411
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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04 Feb 2012 08:28 PM
bump
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
04 Feb 2012 09:44 PM
another bump
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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04 Feb 2012 10:35 PM
Well...?
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
05 Feb 2012 01:14 PM
reply nao
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MrBuckster is not online. MrBuckster
Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Total Posts: 20
05 Feb 2012 05:01 PM
Oh hello.
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History0111 is not online. History0111
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 778
07 Feb 2012 02:29 PM
Are you going to reply or not?
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wreton34 is not online. wreton34
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
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07 Feb 2012 03:01 PM
reply
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XieXie is not online. XieXie
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 6728
07 Feb 2012 07:50 PM
For the record, most of these arguments were woefully inept and/or underdeveloped. Or just false.

I'm not going argue about Marxism predicated off those articulations of my arguments. I think there are several issues with Marxism that literally are inexpressible in a forum post (and by that, I mean lots and lots of math is needed). For instance, Okishio's Theorem is a mathematical proof that functionally disproves Marx's claim that profit margins will always fall, which would theoretically render capitalism unsustainable. A summary of the theorem and a simple proof can be found at http://tuvalu.santafe.edu/~bowles/TechnicalChange1981.pdf
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