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Re: Dont delete shirts for no reason

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crackup23 is not online. crackup23
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 1973
28 Jan 2012 12:24 PM
Okay really my shirt go deleted for no reason, and it wasn`t inappropriate. It should not have been deleted in the first place.

My point is, we need a reason why our shirts get deleted.


Support?
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 12:34 PM
It was deleted because it seemed inappropriate by the moderators.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 12:35 PM
*to the moderators.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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papey is not online. papey
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 7424
28 Jan 2012 12:36 PM
@XAXA
Well, they should say what was so inappropriate to them.
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 12:39 PM
Well, yes, they should have told you what was wrong with it so you can correct it.
But It would probably be difficult to type in a reason for every offense. Hundreds of offenses come every minute. This would just slow down mods.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 01:01 PM
"This would just slow down mods."
--
But improve the community by leaps and bounds.

Consider this: you take a test at school, and you bomb it. The teacher doesn't pass back the test, and doesn't go over it. You have absolutely no way to correct yourself. Thus, you haven't learned anything. The same thing applies here. If you don't tell the users here what they did wrong, even in a simple sentence, then they won't change. Very rarely can I tell why my post was CD'ed, or why my item was deleted. Sometimes, I even have a hard time figuring out why I was banned just because of the generic, obscure, and ambiguous reasons they give. Thus, I don't know what NOT to do next time, and history repeats.

So sure, maybe it would slow them down. But at least they wouldn't have to worry about the people who didn't MEAN to do it from doing it again. In the long run, the community gets better, and the mods get less work. Everyone wins.

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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papey is not online. papey
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 7424
28 Jan 2012 01:03 PM
cobalt just summed up everything.
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tsugrad is not online. tsugrad
Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 1486
28 Jan 2012 01:04 PM
Yep, pretty much.
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 01:20 PM
Yes, but then it will slow down mods.

Quality moderation is worse than Slow moderation. we can't wait five hours for a post to get deleted. It needs to be gone immediately.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 01:28 PM
Then you've overlooked the premise of my argument.

I'm arguing that maybe for the first week, the time will increase before a thread is deleted (As if it isn't already long enough). But, take this scenario: If you make a shirt with a backpack. But the backpack, unannounced to you, is inappropriate. It gets deleted, but you don't know why. So you make a new, different shirt. But the new shirt has the backpack also, because you like it. It gets deleted again. And history keeps repeating.

With the new system, you know exactly what you did wrong. And thus the mods don't have to waste their time with the innocent who didn't know what was wrong. Those innocent persons won't ever make the mistake again. Now, instead of everyone getting banned, only the trolls and newbies are the ones left doing things wrong. The newbies get fixed, the trolls get banned.

The community is now better. Moderation is more accurate. And we can all maybe stop QQ'ing over that "Unfair ban".

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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ChaosEspeon is not online. ChaosEspeon
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Total Posts: 4578
28 Jan 2012 01:30 PM
@XAXA

No. Eventually people learn what is wrong and what is right, so they don't accidentally make these mistakes constantly anymore. Thus giving the mods less offenses to look over.



~That awkward when you said moment in your head~
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 01:32 PM
I'm pretty sure people who intentionally offend have a modus operandi.

They'll never stop with what they're doing if it accomplishes what they want. Think of it as feeding them. The more they ruin a mod's day, the happier they get.
"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 01:38 PM
Yes. But this is about people who didn't know or mean what they did. In effect, they had no mode of operation. And this system would stop those without a mode from acting again, and only those with a mode would be left out in an open field with all the mods armed with high-precision rifles.

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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tsugrad is not online. tsugrad
Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 1486
28 Jan 2012 01:40 PM
High-precision rifles? Nah, I say a nuke machiene gun for each mod.
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 01:41 PM
There aren't enough High-Precision rifles to go around, sadly.

The mods show you the "Rules" pageevery time you made an offense.
They shouldn't ignore that page, they should read through it. I know that most of the community would just skip through it.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 01:51 PM
BUT, the problem is still that MUCH of the rules page is obscure and ambiguous. Not only that, but children can have a hard time understanding it.

If you'd like another point of view, take this. I've read the ToS and EULA. I know what I'm not supposed to do, but I still get items deleted and posts filtered. Why?

Well, maybe the shirt I made had a pocket. And that pocket came out in a weird shape. I knew what it was supposed to be, so I didn't notice that it could be interpreted as something else. The mods deleted it, I have no idea why, I rage on the forums. I haven't learned what not to do.

If I post a 7 paragraph idea, and it gets filtered, what am I to do? I can read through it. I don't find what isn't supposed to be there. I put it into Word and spell check it. Nothing comes up. Reading through it doesn't work because you KNOW what it's supposed to say, which is why you give it to someone else to proof-read. You what what the typo is supposed to say so your mind auto-corrects it and you don't read it correctly. You have no idea what to do, or what you did. You haven't learned.

In both instances, which actually have happened to me before, the community loses out on good ideas and art. Sure, the ToS was preserved. But at what cost do you think it was at? The community essentially erodes and degrades in quality bit by bit for every time the mods fail to supply a reason for what we did wrong.

Which brings me back to my major premise. After the mods start doing this, those with a mode of action for doing it are the only ones left, because the rest of the community knows exactly what to do, down to every letter, hypothetical situation, and obscure line-art. Moderation is essentially sped up because there are no more unintentional rule-breakers.

The mods are here to protect the community. Banning everyone on the site isn't protecting it. This is a kid's site, with very specific guidelines that even teens and adults can sometimes have hard times understanding. The mods need to help the community improve when an infraction occurs. Only then can we stop QQ'ing and rage quitting.

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 02:02 PM
And those with the mode of action will slow us down.


Typos are unpredictable, therefore a simple "reason and don't do this again" won't work. It's an accident, accidents cannot be prevented.

The main side-effect that I am preventing is slow moderation. I know some people are getting angry that their ads may take 5 hours to be accessed. With your way, this only slows things down. A thread may be lingering for hours until a mod comes to the rescue. The essence of moderation is the removal of offensive content in a swift and righteous manner.

Yes. Mods are here to protect the community. But we can't wait for that protection. We want it NOW. Mods aren't here to lecture about what you did you, its up to your interpretation of the rules.
Apart from that, mods have the right of way. If you read the rules, it implicitly says that "The mods are always right.".

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 02:05 PM
Then maybe we are looking at this in two different ways. I'm saying, a way of letting us know what's wrong.

I make a typo in a thread. It highlights in some way what is being filtered so I can change it to a more correct form. Those with a mode of action won't correct it. They are either filtered or banned. I am not. I fixed the typo and went on with my life.

Images and places are harder to do with that. So, instead of highlighting what's wrong, and instead of just deleting it, they remove the content in question and send us a system PM (from the same sender as the "Friend request accepted" messages) telling us what to change. Those who made an "Image typo" will fix it. Those with a mode of action will not and will be filtered or banned.

Everyone benefits.

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 02:11 PM
In the first one, you are suggesting a filter, not laser-guided moderation.

A person/troll being may now abuse this power by sending mass amounts of inappropriate images to the moderation, slowing down the whole system. And I'm pretty sure the rules are clear about images.

Kinda like a DDoS, if you think about it.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 02:14 PM
"abuse this power by sending mass amounts of inappropriate "
--
The mods are people, not robots. They'd notice the spam, and delete the troll. Just as they do now.

But, I feel somewhere, there is a fundamental miscommunication that is causing this dissonance.

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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XAXA is not online. XAXA
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 6315
28 Jan 2012 02:18 PM
They won't notice alts, either.

"You can't debug a script you wrote with the best of your ability. Therefore never try your best when you're writing a script."
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wagnerja is not online. wagnerja
Joined: 30 May 2008
Total Posts: 4653
28 Jan 2012 02:22 PM
Mods thought it was innapropriate. Look it over closely.
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cobalt10 is not online. cobalt10
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 7371
28 Jan 2012 02:24 PM
But you also know that images don't show until approved, right? Which means that even if they want to slow moderation by trolling, the community won't see the content in question anyway.

Besides that, I don't think posting an image that blatantly has curse words in it would get the moderators to say "Oh, a kid made a mistake" as much as an actually subtle mistake.

~S&I: home to those who don't understand Rule 19 or 20, pit stops for those who do.~
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wagnerja is not online. wagnerja
Joined: 30 May 2008
Total Posts: 4653
28 Jan 2012 02:24 PM
By look over it closely I mean by other peoples perspectives to. Although, I would liek the idea of when something's content is deleted you're told why.
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crackup23 is not online. crackup23
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 1973
28 Jan 2012 02:24 PM
IT WAS NOT INAPPROPRIATE. It was just a lion making a crazy look a two Koreans or Chinese. Or Japanese :/
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