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Re: The real solution to user created dynamic lighting

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Quenty is not online. Quenty
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 9316
18 Jan 2012 10:30 PM
The real solution is to create the shadow on the screen using GUI's. Using a polygon render:

http://www.roblox.com/gloo-Library-v0-6-item?id=67401171

And a object to screen function:

A object(vector3?) toscreen function:

local angle=1/math.tan(math.rad(30))
--ToScreen(screen size in pixels,3D point in world)
function PointToScreen(camcf,screen,pos)
local asp=screen.x/screen.y --aspect ratio
local lwpos=camcf:pointToObjectSpace(pos) --put to camera spaice
local screenpos=Vector2.new(lwpos.x,lwpos.y)/-lwpos.z --z divesion pl0x.
screenpos=Vector2.new(screenpos.x*(angle/asp),screenpos.y*angle) --Perspective whatever angle FoV??? stuff.
screenpos=(screenpos/2)*screen + screen/2 --convert to pixels.
return Vector2.new(screenpos.x,screen.y-screenpos.y),-lwpos.z --invert y axis.
end

It would be possible to render shadows using GUI's. There might still be lag, but you could make really technically correct shadow's using GUI's, and raycasting. If prerecordeded, movies could be made with the GUI's.


Who else thinks this will work?
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ProArchitect is not online. ProArchitect
Joined: 19 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 26
18 Jan 2012 10:53 PM
"If prerecordeded, movies could be made with the GUI's. " At 2 FPS. I like the rest of the idea. I think I'm going to make a simple test.
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Radioaktiivinen is not online. Radioaktiivinen
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 18629
19 Jan 2012 08:23 AM
Ye i thought of covering the screen with black frames and changing their transparency according to the light level at the spot.

This is how i would do it:

1.When you move your camera, if you moved just a little, itll move the pixel shadings some amount to some direction (not accurate but whatever)

2.Then itll start firing rays from random pixels, changing their transparency to the light level at that spot, and affecting the neighbor cell transparencies if they havent been raycasted yet. It does this eventually for each frame, but itll cast more rays at the center of the screen at the start (so its the first area which gets done)



Different approach:

Keep track of brick faces. Each step, render the faces on the frame grid on the screen (render the light levels, so only change transparencies of the frames)

Before that, you need to get all visible polygons. Then you sort them by depth. Then you render them from closest to farthest, with Z testing of course, and have a quadtree kind of thing, with all the bottom depth cells set, to quickly check the deepest pixel in the area of the polygon, to see if it is potentially visible (???).

Calculate the light levels of the faces/pixels after you have a grid of pixels and depths (= youve rendered the polygons somewhere, but only including the depth and the brick/material/watever) That way you only need to calculate light for the visible pixels, so you wont calculate lighting twice for a single pixel if you happen to have some overdraw.

Then get lag k?
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Anaminus is not online. Anaminus
Top 100 Poster
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Total Posts: 5945
19 Jan 2012 08:07 PM
The real solution is to get the devs to choose to finish dynamic lighting over increasing max player count.
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StudioScrapt is not online. StudioScrapt
Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 427
19 Jan 2012 08:12 PM
LOL anaminus!
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MrgamesNwatch is not online. MrgamesNwatch
Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Total Posts: 7729
19 Jan 2012 09:04 PM
@anaminus
agreed, i've been dying for better dynamic lighting. i notice that any game that takes effect of independent light sources and shadows looks way better and adds a better feel to the game. (like minecraft :P)

~I've been to nil and back.
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Oysi is not online. Oysi
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 9058
20 Jan 2012 12:42 AM
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LPGhatguy is online. LPGhatguy
Forum Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 4725
20 Jan 2012 12:53 AM
@Oysi
Isn't the definition of dynamic lighting simply trying to imitate light in a computer?

And can't the processing get intense in a brobdingnagian scale? (Had to use that word)
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NINJAKID09 is not online. NINJAKID09
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 14392
20 Jan 2012 12:54 AM
I tweeted to Shedletsky that Dynamic Lighting seems more important to me than Player count.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
20 Jan 2012 01:00 AM
@NINJAKID09

Increasing player count requires to optimize the game. Therefore, if you don't use the higher player count, it means you'll benefit from the optimizations anyways.

Optimizing the RobloxApp.exe is more important than dynamic lighting, we'd need to do it to get dynamic lighting anyways.
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Oysi is not online. Oysi
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 9058
20 Jan 2012 01:01 AM
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NINJAKID09 is not online. NINJAKID09
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 14392
20 Jan 2012 01:03 AM
@Julien ROBLOX would actually have to improve their server speeds too, which would cost them more money than just adding a feature.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
20 Jan 2012 01:05 AM
@Oysi

So that means if I put this in my place, it'll have dynamic lighting: http://www.roblox.com/TimeOfDay-item?id=65381091 ?
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
20 Jan 2012 01:06 AM
@NINJAKID09

Bah, if you don't need the higher player count, and if you don't use it, then you'll still get benefits from the higher speed.
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NINJAKID09 is not online. NINJAKID09
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 14392
20 Jan 2012 01:07 AM
@Juilen If you didn't notice, ROBLOX forces you to use Mega servers if you want a higher player count anyway.

Meaning the high player count would be useless to places that aren't mega servers.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
20 Jan 2012 01:09 AM
@NINJAKID09

Meaning non-mega servers will benefit from the optimizations. That's exactly what I was saying.

If you don't make your player count higher, then you'll still benefit from the optimizations to the application.
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NINJAKID09 is not online. NINJAKID09
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 14392
20 Jan 2012 01:09 AM
Where does it say they're optimising it though?
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LPGhatguy is online. LPGhatguy
Forum Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 4725
20 Jan 2012 01:11 AM
@Oysi
I'm pretty sure it just means that it's not static.

It's lighting that changes with the environment. MC has that.
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JulienDethurens is not online. JulienDethurens
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Total Posts: 11046
20 Jan 2012 01:11 AM
They have to. Otherwise, how do you think they'd be able to support more players?

Of course, they're improving the servers speed, and that's only for mega places. But they're also optimizing the application, which will benefit everyone, even if it's not in a mega place.
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myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
20 Jan 2012 01:24 AM
I think Minecraft has dynamic lighting by pretty much all definitions that tend to lurk around here.

Go in a cave, it's dark. Build a wall and stand on the side of it that's opposite to the side the sun currently is: you get shade, that is I think you do.
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MrNicNac is not online. MrNicNac
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 26567
20 Jan 2012 08:30 AM
Minecraft uses static lighting.
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Oysi is not online. Oysi
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 9058
20 Jan 2012 08:52 AM
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blockoo is not online. blockoo
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 17202
20 Jan 2012 08:57 AM
@Oysi
The non-character shadows are static. They have a shadow all around them, and they stay the same no matter the TimeOfDay. I think they're pretty much crap and just cause lag, so I keep them off.

~Would you like some butter with that latetoast?
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Brandonhare is not online. Brandonhare
Joined: 02 May 2007
Total Posts: 11005
20 Jan 2012 08:59 AM
Wonder if there's a tool that sets geographicLatitude (or whatever) and timeOfDay to set the sun at any point on the sky and get lighting from any angle.
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Oysi is not online. Oysi
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 9058
20 Jan 2012 09:00 AM
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