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Re: Artificial Intelligence Question

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Flurite is not online. Flurite
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 5386
22 Dec 2011 06:24 PM
Just out of curiosity, is it very complex to create a good artificial intelligence, for lets say a board game? I have a very sad feeling that it is, but maybe there's some sorta algorithm..
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xBLOCKHEAD is not online. xBLOCKHEAD
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 262
22 Dec 2011 06:26 PM
Depends. What scripting family does this "board game" run on? Or is it a ROBLOX place?
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Flurite is not online. Flurite
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 5386
22 Dec 2011 06:34 PM
A ROBLOX place.

But just in general. I've never seen one on ROBLOX, that's for sure. >.>
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aboy5643a is not online. aboy5643a
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 2785
22 Dec 2011 09:22 PM
Just do some logical calculations in your code. Predict some expected outcomes as an input and take that input, manipulate it logically and then output something that makes sense. My GUI physics game has AI "cows" that can take touching input (like a wall) and try to solve getting around or something similar by jumping and updating their movement direction.
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blockoo is not online. blockoo
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 17202
22 Dec 2011 09:39 PM
Machines currently fail miserably in dynamic situations. It's a sad fact we all must accept.
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myrkos is not online. myrkos
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 8072
22 Dec 2011 09:43 PM
@blockoo narb,

it's not the machines themselves that fail, it's the programmers. Machines just do what they're told to. It's up to the programmers job to make them "dynamic". Machines are quite capable of doing so.
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SDuke524 is not online. SDuke524
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 6267
22 Dec 2011 09:51 PM
It really all depends on the game. For example, if you were to make an AI for tic-tac-toe, that's pretty easy, if you're trying to make an AI for go, most professionals struggle with that.
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McBlocker is not online. McBlocker
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 1721
23 Dec 2011 01:10 PM
Here's how I go about it, and it tends to work well.

Just set a list of things that a player can do (under any circumstance) ranked from most important to least important. Example: A racing game would be ranked: Find best path, find item box, use item.

Then, just subtract all the things that the AI cannot do at that moment, and just pick the most important one left.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
23 Dec 2011 01:30 PM
It totally depends on the game.

In games where you can easily construct a game tree with a reasonable size, then you can actually make a very good AI without much code. Even for more complicated games, such as checkers, we can currently "solve" the game, that is, if there is a way to force a win the program will be able to find it.

Generally the way you do it is:
1) Gather the current game state
2) Construct a list of every possible next move
3) Use a heuristic to cull most of the possible moves, leaving only ones which aren't completely stupid.
4) Repeat

The tricky part is compressing the data down into a compact enough form that you can store many many levels of the tree. Also, getting the heuristic good enough to make the branching factor relatively low.
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BlueTaslem is not online. BlueTaslem
Joined: 11 May 2008
Total Posts: 11060
23 Dec 2011 01:31 PM
Where the AI can know every option, it tends to be relatively simple.
Except in cases like Go or Chess where the game tree gets to be millions of options long in just 7 to 8 moves...
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
23 Dec 2011 03:53 PM
You can almost never have the AI know _every_ option. The tricky part is always deciding which options are remotely reasonable, and usually that will get rid of quite a lot of the possible options.
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Quenty is not online. Quenty
Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 9316
23 Dec 2011 04:07 PM
Depends on what every option is. If you're building a game from scratch, you control what the player can do.
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stravant is not online. stravant
Forum Moderator
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 2893
23 Dec 2011 04:12 PM
It would likely be a pretty boring game if there were few enough options to be able to list 100% of the possible game states.

Even a game with a branching factor of just 4 and 30 turns has 1.15*10^18 possible game states.
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blockoo is not online. blockoo
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 17202
23 Dec 2011 04:27 PM
Until we figure out how to make personalities and creative thinking skills for machines, AI's will be very inefficient and very limited.
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Radioaktiivinen is not online. Radioaktiivinen
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 18629
23 Dec 2011 04:32 PM
@blockoo

We can already do that... But as long as it cant be made the way a real brain works you must hard code it in.
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blockoo is not online. blockoo
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 17202
23 Dec 2011 04:46 PM
Not really. The stuff you see that claims to have a "personality" basically just mirrors a human subject.
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