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Re: Base VS Bits: A Comparison of Life And Machines

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JoebediaWinfry is not online. JoebediaWinfry
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 78
09 Oct 2011 02:43 PM
What separates life from machines? Some people ask, "if a machine is as complex as life, why couldn't it be considered life?"
Well, there's an answer to that question. There are such things as "biological" machines, which either contain or are powered by life. But still don't possess the key aspects of life. Life is much more complex than a machine.

How do machines store memory? And where? They store it in their hard drive, or any other drive. Memory is stored as "bits", which can be either off or on. Meaning "bits" can be represented by a "0" (off) or a "1" (on). Eight bits make up a byte, which can be used to form perceivable characters. A byte can hold up to 255 with its 8bits.

An example of a byte would be "01000110", or an "F". If you view an ASCII chart, you can figure out what each byte will become.

How does life store data? And where? Life stores data in the DNA, which you've probably heard plenty of times. This memory is stored as nucleic bases, or simply as "base".

The bases are A (adenine), T (thymine), C (cytosine), G (guanine), and U (uracil). When RNA copies DNA code ,it can't use T, so it uses U. So sometimes, instead of T and U. So I'm going to, for sake of comparison, replace "A" with "1", "T" and "U" with a "2", "C" with a "3", and "4" with a "G".

Why? Binary bits can only be 0 and 1 (on or off), but since life uses bases, it can actually use 1-4. Meaning it can store a lot more data. Comparing bit and bases, since a base is only 2, and a base is 4, a base can be smaller and hold more data. Not only does bits have an ASCII chart, life has an RNA codon table. We're not going to talk about it, but DNA holds data complementary to RNA. But RNA's codes are the ones that really matter, so that's mainly what I'm going to talk about (by complementary, I mean if DNA has a 1432, RNA will have a 2314).

The point of DNA is just comparing data stored, but the RNA actually has the complementary data which is the main codes. So RNA holds "codons", these are similar to "bytes". Each codon has 3 bases (while bytes have 8 bits). The codons all are processed in the ribosome to make a protein (kinda like a sentence made of bytes). Now the codes work much like binary as well. There's actually a "start" and "stop" code, and everything in between specifies the other parts of the protein. If you look at a Genetic Code Chart (RNA codon table, like the ASCII table) it tells you what each acid the codon will form (like bytes forming characters). AUG, or 124, is the start codon. This starts the process. There are various stop codons, and example would be 241 (or "opal").

An example of "binary" in biology would be "124 312 421 241". I have no clue if that would even work. That would be a protein of tyrosine and valine (coming from the Genetic Codes table). Usually proteins are LONG codes, so I really don't think that would ever be a protein used in the body. But, who knows?

A bit is a unit of information for machines, a base is a unit of information for life.
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sncplay42 is not online. sncplay42
Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 11891
09 Oct 2011 02:45 PM
What's your point
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JoebediaWinfry is not online. JoebediaWinfry
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 78
09 Oct 2011 02:48 PM
@SNCPlay42

lern2reed and lern2notbeadoosh
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Oysi is not online. Oysi
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 9058
09 Oct 2011 02:57 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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bunnybunn264 is not online. bunnybunn264
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 5409
09 Oct 2011 03:01 PM
you could store DNA in binary if you really wanted

noob
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JoebediaWinfry is not online. JoebediaWinfry
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 78
09 Oct 2011 03:04 PM
@Oysi

Have you not even taken basic biology? DNA stores the data for making proteins.

@bunnybunn264

-_-

Binary represents bits. Yeah, you could match up values, but it would still be incorrect. "noob" just leads me to believe you're trolling me, and you're not serious.
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myrco1001 is not online. myrco1001
Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2574
09 Oct 2011 03:12 PM
Is there a tl;dr version?

-♂ MYRCO♂-
Scripter, music obsessed, atheist and dutch. What else?
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Glum7 is not online. Glum7
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 45
09 Oct 2011 03:25 PM
I understand what you are trying to say, but I cannot help but notice some key mistakes in your post. First of all, DNA is not actually the area that memory is stored. DNA is an organelle found inside of individual cells, that means that it can only store the data that cell has come into contact with and not actual data from the body or organism that it makes up. Secondly DNA is not the same as RNA to when you say that thymine, adenine, cystosine, and guanine can be represented as a 1 2 3 or 4, you are basicly proving your point and stating that DiNucleatic Acids contain more data storage variables than your every day average CPU HardDrive which only has the 2 bases "1 and 0"! You then some-what merge DNA and RNA together by including Uracil which is an entirely different base since it is part of ribo-nuleatic acids which only come in contact with DNA when copying DNA to help it translate into protiens that can be transported to the ribosome organelle within that cell that the nucleus is in. So Uracil is just another way of of saying thymine or adenine or cystosine or guanine just in another "language" that amino acids can understand and DNA can understand but the problem is that amino acids cannot understand the bases of DNA and vice-versa. On a final note, why is this in the scripters section of the forum, it would be more appreciated in the random areas of ROBLOX Forum, then again you are talking to children between the ages of 7-17 who use ROBLOX as an escape from school and learning such as this. I think you have a valid opinion, but you may need to go back and study a little more about your theory and share it with people that are also interested in your discovery.
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JoebediaWinfry is not online. JoebediaWinfry
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 78
09 Oct 2011 03:38 PM
@glum

I stopped reading after

"DNA is not actually the area that memory is stored. DNA is an organelle "

DNA is not an organelle. It's a nucleic acid inside of the nucleus. DNA is where the memory is stored, it's what holds the base sequences which are copied by the RNA and complemented by the tRNA, and then created in the ribosome.

You are an idiot who has either never taken biology or has been mislead.
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m27frogy is not online. m27frogy
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 4427
09 Oct 2011 03:57 PM
@JoebediaWinfry,

I would agree that it isn't a organelle, but only the data for the construction of the body and the creation of protiens, not for the storage of memories. DNA can be described as a blueprint, I don't believe you could describe it as a computer memory device.

P.S. Note this is a analogy, I totally agree with your ideas about the difference between computers and life. Oh, and don't call me a idiot too. Call me a inexperienced slob if you must. I might be taking your statement "DNA is where the memory is stored" in the wrong way. If so correct me.
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JoebediaWinfry is not online. JoebediaWinfry
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 78
09 Oct 2011 04:25 PM
@m27

The DNA does have stored memory! The memory is stored for the blueprint of creating everything!

Is your computer no different? Does it create shapes and pictures out of its butt? No, it has a blueprint.
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AntiSector is not online. AntiSector
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 105
09 Oct 2011 04:27 PM
@Most posts on this thread



TL;DR

~ Trall
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Combrad is not online. Combrad
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 11025
09 Oct 2011 04:33 PM
I didn't actually know any of this, now all I want to know is, is this correct?
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ImpalerOfSouls is not online. ImpalerOfSouls
Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 2165
09 Oct 2011 04:37 PM
"What seperates life from machines?"
Life self-replicates by definition. Most machines don't.


Every other part of this thread is irellevant.
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bunnybunn264 is not online. bunnybunn264
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 5409
09 Oct 2011 04:39 PM
^
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babyzander13 is not online. babyzander13
Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 128
09 Oct 2011 04:55 PM
tl;dr

thx for wasting your life typing this
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Aerideyn is not online. Aerideyn
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 1882
09 Oct 2011 05:47 PM
Think of DNA as ROM, its a read only set of instructions which get used to build proteins that make up cells.

It is certainly NOT where you rember where you house is!
Your brain is composed of trillions of neurons which, have a off/on state, they arange themselves to become effectively a massive - massive binary computer.
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blocco is not online. blocco
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 29474
09 Oct 2011 05:49 PM
"An example of a byte would be '01000110', or an 'F'. If you view an ASCII chart, you can figure out what each byte will become."

Wrong. No number is equal to the string "F", no matter what base. If that is "F", then the number 283459523 is equal to the character for pi.
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Varp is not online. Varp
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 5333
09 Oct 2011 06:56 PM
"Life stores data in the DNA"

I'm almost certain that the entire premise of your post is incorrect, because I think that this isn't true. I'm fairly sure that DNA stores the process that is required to create an organism, but it doesn't change very much throughout the life of an organism. Memory is process that happens on an intercellular level in the brain, and science doesn't *really* understand how it works. Yes. There is data in DNA & RNA, but it's not really writable. In other words: Citation needed.

I also don't entirely get how this shows a difference between life & machines. According to you, one stores things as a series of bits and the other stores it as a series of As, Cs, Ts, and Gs. Well, what if I wrote 01000110 as:

01 00 01 10
Or... (using A = 0, C = 1,T = 2,G = 3)
CACT

The entropy of each symbol in memory might be different between life as we know it and machines, but that's not a very big difference; they can be converted easily, and both could easily be expressed as a single number. The difference is probably more along the lines of that brains do not store information in a linear series; neurons aren't in a neat line. They are in a blob-like configuration that somehow can store data.

"Wrong. No number is equal to the string "F", no matter what base. If that is "F", then the number 283459523 is equal to the character for pi."

He didn't say that 01000110 was F in any base. ASCII maps integers onto strings of symbols. It's not that:
01000110 base 2 = F base 256
It's that:
f(01000110 base 2) = 'F'
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blocco is not online. blocco
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 29474
09 Oct 2011 06:57 PM
DNA is writable. Think of mutations.
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LocalDimensions is not online. LocalDimensions
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 2929
09 Oct 2011 06:57 PM
yay moole is posting
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blocco is not online. blocco
Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 29474
09 Oct 2011 06:58 PM
Keep in mind that my statement is only true if mutable == writable.
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myrco1001 is not online. myrco1001
Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2574
10 Oct 2011 06:18 AM
DNA is a storage of how you look, when you change/grow etc DNA is copied, however while copying there's a small piece diforced of the rest. Therefore you change as you become older.

-♂ MYRCO♂-
Scripter, music obsessed, atheist and dutch. What else?
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JoebediaWinfry is not online. JoebediaWinfry
Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 78
10 Oct 2011 03:13 PM
What I said was true. Even if it was irrelevant or had no point. I just made a connection and wanted to share it.

So stop flaming and just feel happy that you gained some random knowledge.
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Glum7 is not online. Glum7
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 45
10 Oct 2011 09:58 PM
@JoebediaWinfry I am sorry if my typo misled you. If you read the whole thing through then you would notice that I reallt meant that the nucleus is an organelle! Also I am in the 10th grade and have taked multiple versions of Biology while you are so childish that you still call people idiots based on a mistake on their posts on your thread. You can not even take a simple opinion that is posed against your own. Also I was never saying that what you were sharing was stupid or un-knowlagable, I actually took an interest in what you were talking about and up until now had pinned you as an individual who actually had some sort of knowlage but was just needing some help using the right terms. I know that DNA is not an organelle, If I said that I am sorry for my typo. I certainly do NOT believe you are an idiot. If you read my reply rom beginning to end (discounting the typo about DNA since I typed it up at 3am from where I am and havent taken the course of Biology for over a year now) then you would clearly see that I was not "Flaming" or "Raging" I was just saying that it is some interesting views but that this was the scripting area of the forum and not the RANDOM KNOWLAGE OF THE UNIVERSE area... I can be mean about your thread, but I will not get angry about someone not taking my advice or not reading my posts.
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