1waffle1
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| Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 12:25 AM |
Okay, I'm just looking at this from my point of view.
Relative to the decimal system, as if "infinity" was a number, it would be bigger than any other number other than itsself, or another conceptual number that overrules it.
If you take away infinity from infinity, it's zero. that's it. it isn't undefined, it's zero. Why would it be undefined? You have a number, and take THAT NUMBER away from THAT NUMBER, there is NOTHING left. ZERO. [/rage]
if you subtract an actual number from infinity, it's still infinity.
MORE INFINITY. There aren't as many numbers between 1 and 2 as there are between 1 and 3. TRUTH. Even though we know it's BOTH INFINITY, there is still MORE between one and three. It's OBVIOUS.
There are infinite points on a line. There are infinately more points for every point on that line in a plane. Even though it's both INFINITY, which apparently HAS TO BE THE SAME, ALWAYS, logically, it ISN'T TRUE. If you did ANY OF THIS MATH with a number that wasn't so FAKE, it would MAKE COMPLETE SENSE. [/rage]
Anyone else who thinks differently about it, to me, is stupid. No matter how you try to explain it, there is no way I can find your logic to be logical any more than mine. |
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| 22 Aug 2011 12:31 AM |
Yea, but that means nerd-raging about it won't be as fun.
So STFU |
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Tenal
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| Joined: 15 May 2011 |
| Total Posts: 18684 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 12:51 AM |
"If you take away infinity from infinity, it's zero. that's it. it isn't undefined, it's zero"
It's undefined because infinity has no fixed "size". One infinity could be "larger" than the other.
Infinity + 1 = Infinity -- > Infinity + 1 - Infinity = Infinity - Infinity --? 1 = Infinity - Infinity
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Patacorow
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| Joined: 29 Dec 2007 |
| Total Posts: 1359 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 01:12 AM |
Fungal, everything you said is right except for
1 = Infinity - Infinity
since
Infinity - Infinity = 0
therefore this is obsolete;
1 = 0 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 01:22 AM |
" If you take away infinity from infinity, it's zero. that's it. it isn't undefined, it's zero. Why would it be undefined? You have a number, and take THAT NUMBER away from THAT NUMBER, there is NOTHING left. ZERO. [/rage]"
Lolnope.
Infinity + Infinity = Infinity, so I guess it'd be logical that Infinity - Infinity = Infinity.
Infinity + Infinity = infinity. How couldn't Infinity - Infinity equal Infinity? That'd make no sense. |
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| 22 Aug 2011 01:25 AM |
| Infinity has no precise size. One infinity could be larger than another. They are infinite, not finite. They are undefined. Infinity - Infinity = Infinity, all of that knowing that all of these infinity might have different sizes. And there is no way to calculate it, that is precisely why they are considered as 'undefined'. |
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| 22 Aug 2011 03:15 AM |
So? Even if they are undefined, inf - inf = 0.
x - x = 0 ALWAYS
x to the power of 0 = 1 ALWAYS
x is undefined. Does that makes these statements false? |
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pighead10
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| Joined: 03 May 2009 |
| Total Posts: 10341 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 03:40 AM |
Okay, pupils! Let's count 100 places, starting from the highest number possible!
"infinity infinity and one infinity and two infinity and three infinity and four infinity and five infinity and six infinity and seven ..." |
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pighead10
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| Joined: 03 May 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 03:46 AM |
um back on topic
Let's say infinity is x.
x - x = 0
Infinity is undefined, therefore so is x, but x - x still equals zero. If you're arguing that one infinity could be larger than another, then you can't put it into an equation like that anyway, and you're right. But then you're saying
infinity - infinity = infinity == a - b = c
which it doesn't. |
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| 22 Aug 2011 03:56 AM |
"So? Even if they are undefined, inf - inf = 0.
x - x = 0 ALWAYS
x to the power of 0 = 1 ALWAYS
x is undefined. Does that makes these statements false?"
You're perfectly right.
The thing is, infinity != infinity. Yeah, that's right. Infinity isn't equal to infinity.
x - x = 0. Yep. Except in this case, it's the same value, AKA : x. If you calculate infinity - infinity, it ISN'T the same value. Yep, that's why infinity is undefined. An infinity could be larger than another.
Infinity + 1 = infinity. The second infinity is larger than the first. If you put them in variables such as x, that'd make no sense, since x wouldn't be equal to x. Yes, if x = infinity, x - x = 0. But it doesn't mean that infinity - infinity = 0, since actually, both infinitys AREN'T NECESSARILY IDENTICAL, meaning the result of the calcul could be ANYTHING, which is precisely why we say it is undefined (or infinity, actually, since it's pretty much the same).
Happy? |
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| 22 Aug 2011 04:04 AM |
Also, nope, inf ^ 0 != 1.
Exponents are just multiplications, which are just additions. Since infinity + infinity = undefined (or infinity, if you prefer), it directly means that any calcul using multiplications, divisions or exponentiations will NECESSARILY end up in undefined.
Inf + inf = inf. Inf * inf = inf. Inf / inf = inf. Inf ^ 2 = inf. Inf ^ 1 = (inf ^ 2) / inf = inf / inf = inf. Inf ^ 0 = (inf ^ 1) / inf = inf / inf = inf. YEP! EXACTLY. Inf ^ 0 = 1.
For those that didn't know, there's a reason that any number that is not undefined ^ 0 = 1. It's not just random. Think about it this way:
2 ^ 2 = 4. 2 ^ 1 = 2, which is actualy (2 ^ 2) / 2. Meaning that 2 ^ 0 = (2 ^ 1) / 2, which actually results in 1. But if you apply the same logic with infinity, it DOESN'T give you 1, since inf / inf != 1.
The only reason that a number ^ 0 would be equal to 1 is that that same number divised by itself would equal 1, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE FOR INFINITY. |
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sdfgw
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| Joined: 08 Jan 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 07:54 AM |
i received a PM about this thread
unfortunately my incredible and indisputable knowledge of everything ('cept matrices) extends to infinity in such ways it would make your head explode in infinite pieces, each piece the size of your head / infinity (or if you're being pedantic, 1/infinity which = 0, so the pieces would deatomise and essentially disintegrate)
where was i
oh yeah
"Even though it's both INFINITY, which apparently HAS TO BE THE SAME, ALWAYS, logically, it ISN'T TRUE. If you did ANY OF THIS MATH with a number that wasn't so FAKE, it would MAKE COMPLETE SENSE."
i vote we leave it there |
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Aaaboy97
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| Joined: 05 Apr 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:03 AM |
"x to the power of 0 = 1 ALWAYS"
0^0 = undefined
trololololololololololololololololololololol |
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sdfgw
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| Joined: 08 Jan 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:10 AM |
x^0 = x / x
that's basically where x^0 = 1 comes from
so x^0 = 0 / 0 = UH OH |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:15 AM |
"so x^0 = 0 / 0 = UH OH"
Nope, that's true only if x = 0.
Also, infinity ^ 0 != 1. Why? Because infinity / infinity != 1. =) |
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sdfgw
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| Joined: 08 Jan 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:19 AM |
sorrehs, that's what I meant. 0^0 *
Okay then. Here's a Q. What's infinity^-1? |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:24 AM |
infinity^-1 = undefined.
Actually, whatever operation you use on infinity, it'll always give you undefined. =)
That includes inf / inf, inf * 0, inf ^ 0 and inf - inf. |
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sdfgw
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| Joined: 08 Jan 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:27 AM |
x ^ -1 = 1/x?
Seems plausible to me. |
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| 22 Aug 2011 08:31 AM |
owait... You're right.
I failed.
infinity ^ -1 = 0. =/
I failed. Too tired, I guess. ;o |
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| 22 Aug 2011 09:01 AM |
Infinitive < Infinity true
-Beardo |
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sdfgw
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| Joined: 08 Jan 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 09:06 AM |
So I suppose we could draw:
infinity ^ x =
infinity if x > 0 0 if x < 0 undefined if x = 0
hm? |
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pighead10
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| Joined: 03 May 2009 |
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| 22 Aug 2011 09:08 AM |
x is undefined
infinity is undefined
x - x = 0
infinity - infinity = 0
Unless infinity doesn't equal infinity
which means you're saying:
infinity - infinity = infinity == a - b = c
WHICH BREAKS TEH RULES OF ALGEBRA
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