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Re: The Flaws of British Nationalism

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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 06:51 PM
The British Empire is gone. Just gone now. It collapsed in the 60's due to economic hardship and revolution. But that is not the reason of this. The reason of this is end any stupid implications a certain someone (*coughs* weton) on a return of a British Empire.

Reason #1: The British do not have means of access to both oceans. The US' success is largely due to their power navy that has access to both the Atlantic and the Pacific due to its transcontinentalism. It dominates trade in both areas and creates the dependancies of nations like Japan on them to protect their sea lanes. This is not the case of the British.

The British ruled in a different age when one needed only to control the Atlantic and Transatlantic trade was all that mattered. The British being an island and being naturally exposed to the Atlantic was a perfect suit for this. The Pacific during those days didn't matter because major nations for a long that exported internationally that accessed that ocean was Russia, The US and Britain. (Japan didn't really export to anywhere except Qing China in those days). They could all manage by means of the Atlantic, making it very unecessary. Nowadays Transpacific trade has become equally important as transatlantic trade due to the Rise of China since the death of Mao Zedong. As well as the export of economy of Post-WW2 Japan. The British since their decolonization which has been occuring all over during the Cold War era they have no doorstep into the Atlantic. Australia and Singapore are loyal to the US due to political manuevering and protection from the big dog. British overseas territories are yet again small islands with little significance to world affairs and really only remain British due to liking of the culture, name, history etc etc.

If the British to were to per se gain a doorstep to the pacific they would have no means of supporting or protecting it by themselves. To access the Pacific from their stand point they have three options: the Northwest Passage, Panama Canal or Cape Horn/Strait of Magellan. All three cause major national security problems and the latter is extremely dangerous meteorologically speaking.
Why you ask?

1) Lets face it Central America is controlled by Drug lords realistically. If the British don't legalize or keep participating in the Mexican Drug War they will likely be kept from entering and if the do, their sailors are kept in a very dangerous position, it would look bad politically if arm the ships with soldiers and the British navy has no real doorstep to the Carribean despite the overseas territories and the commonwealths which an answer related to that will only be accepted if it is for defense of those entities not some trade protecting scheme. Also the carribean is America's backyard and since Britain is realistically in this scenario competing against America that isn't good either.

2) The Northwest Passage for all purposes is under Canadian possession. Canadian Federalism is much more prevalent than Monarchism and they'll percieve British moves towards global power a threat to their sovereignty and never allow the British through. The only country who could prevent that is the US, but since the US in this is case is the enemy of Britain, you know how it goes.

3) Cape Horn/Strait of Magellan is out of the books for several reasons. Crossing the Anararctic ocean is extremely dangerous due to their being no continental wind blocks making it storm prone. Not to mention going through would mean concentrating merchant ships near Argentina. Anglo-Argentinian relations have been going down hill since the Falkland war in the 80's, a claim which the Argentinians still have. The Strait of Magellan is dangerous for both these reasons times 10.

With no way to access the Pacific, you're stuck buddy.

R#2: Economy. The British do not have the means or the political will to become or sustain the largest economy in the world. Being an island and only controlling islands, Britain doesn't posess the resources to drive to get or sustain if (hypothetically) getting. Therefore their market will turn downsour and we see a kaput. They don't have the manpower either to go to work in industrial bases and make a differance unlike the US or even China in this case.

As for Poltical will, present youth culture in Britain is inherently Liberal (at least within American standards). The British youth of today appear to be in support of taxing top earners, protecting costly entitlements, anti-monarchism and other keynesian schemes. Free market politics or Trickle down/Supply-side economics is really the only practical way of making a powerful economy, with those factors at hand Britain doesn't stand a chance at superceding the US. As to tie in with the previous point, the youth culture of Britain is in love with Green energy and will oppose offshore drilling for resources avidly, making your large EEZ pointless.

R#3: Military. Britain being an island does not have a large military. It is forced to look to the territories and maybe the commonwealths to fill spots. Despite having a historically famous navy, the British navy is nothing compared to the American navy of today. It is not as large, nor as strong as America has strong history of producing good amounts of ships over long periods of time where Britain gets large, than gets into a funk, then has a building spree repeat. Without a strong navy they can't protect their sea lanes or support their merchant ships. Without a good navy, they can't effectively move troops for multiple operations or provide mobile bases for air support. All of which is essential for superpowerdom. Britain only contributed those good amounts into the War on Terror in the modern era due to the reasons I said and the believed in the cause so they kept sending people, also because the Government said so.

R#4: The Monarchy. Werton's essential building block for British power in his plan is the return of the Monarchy's power. This will lead to huge problems. It is very expensive in this Modern era to maintain the Monarchy as is which is what fuels Anti-monarchism is Britain. I sincerely doubt Queen Elizabeth II will break her reign-long policy of monarchial neutrality towards British politics, respecting a tradition has become more and more prevalent since Edward VII until nowadays were it is reality. But lets stroll into Werton's fantasy land.

Lets say Prince Charles ascends to the throne as Charles III of the United Kingdom and takes up the absolutist policies of his name forebearers. Do you know what will happen? Since when that occurs the present youth culture will make up young adults, we'll see a massive uprising that will end French Revolutionesque with Charles and Camilla getting arrested and likely executed. Thus Monarchy shooting itself in the foot and dying as quickly as it rebirthed. Monarchies are the relic of the past. Democracy/Republic/Federalistic government is today.

R#5: The Problem of Modern Imperialism. Political correctness is one of the gifts that has been bestowed upon us by the Cold War era. It has defined the last decade and will continue its role of power as long as America doesn't realize its status as an empire. But that is all beside the point. Werton would argue that to fix everything I have mentioned that Imperialism and colonialism will fix it. It most certainly will not due to Political correctness. No self respecting country of today will tolerate anything of imperialism. PC influencing youth culture of all developed nations has cast the empires of the past as evil institutions. If Britain was to try anything an enraged Europe, angry youth and populist America would cut it down like a lumberjack with a chainsaw. Therefore the British would commit suicide virtually if they did so.

But then lets go hypothetical again to appease Werton and cut down our "What if"s. Say the British obtain large measures of colonies once more. The Werton system as it seems now would not be practical with what they took, only taking it because they can and they want land and men for soldiers. But the smart imperialist would then evoke the British System, which would colonize in resource filled places or strategically awesome places as well. They would exploit these for the said benefit for gains. This system while it works ends up alienating the colonists, causing major expenditures on the security of said colonies and will kill itself inadvertedly. The British also couldn't got that far for the stated Ocean Reason above.

R#6: Standings in the world. To be a power you require some degree of populism. The British have very little popularity in the world. In the Middle east and Africa they are viewed as former foreign opressors who want them back and are riding on America's coattails to regain. Britain is their second greatest enemy. In Europe its much worse. The EU is dominated by the French and the Germans whose interests go against that of Britain now, and would certainly go against British imperial interests with the French wanting to secure their Med Union and the Germans wanting economic dominance. With two enemies steering away their homeplate that's a blow. South America they aren't liked as the Latins hate Europeans second most. Especially with a powerful Argentina which is in American interest to have. North America is out of the question. An Imperial Britain would be despised by the Canadians for the said and obvious reasons and the Mexicans for the same reasons stated before. America is presently Britain's strongest and best ally, but with this situation, they've lost North America. Asia is different. Asia is dominated by four countries. Russia, India, Japan and China. Japan and China have interests to keep with the US and not change course. Russia has interest to keep with Germany, thus distancing from Britain and India after suffering the British Raj would never open arms to Britain. It only accepts trade deals because India is an economic giant and wants more money, but unlikely it would close in with a New British Empire in play. Without any strong alliances, Britain is really an island in diplomacy.

_____

These are the main reasons to which the dreams of British Nationalists can never occur and the Empire won't return. I hope you enjoy and Werton you come to the light. Thank you.






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Angstrom93 is not online. Angstrom93
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2118
10 Aug 2011 07:00 PM
frdmn
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:01 PM
You like?
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Angstrom93 is not online. Angstrom93
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2118
10 Aug 2011 07:03 PM
I'd say Israel is viewed as a bigger enemy than UK. But it doesn't matter that much
___
Anyway, I liked The Next Decade, but I found it really lacked in ACTUALLY forecasting what he thinks will happen.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:05 PM
But I wrote this.
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Angstrom93 is not online. Angstrom93
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2118
10 Aug 2011 07:07 PM
Oh yes I know. I just get sidetracked easily.

I did like it very much. Britain would need to recolonize Suez if they want to get anywhere.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:09 PM
Yeah, which will never happen because of the French Med Union and Arab Paranoia towards Anglo prescence so close to home.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:30 PM
What was your favorite part? I liked the bit on Monarchy because they all die, and I liked explaining the significance of the oceans.
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 07:32 PM
How could they revolt if they have no guns?
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:33 PM
Win^

Black market imports.

Or they raid SF hq and Police hqs.
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Angstrom93 is not online. Angstrom93
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2118
10 Aug 2011 07:34 PM
Anybody can make a gun. 1/10 of guns used in crimes in DC... were homemade
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:34 PM
That to^
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 07:43 PM
Yes, your homemade firearm (Usually single shot and extremely innacurate) will fair well against the L96.
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Angstrom93 is not online. Angstrom93
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2118
10 Aug 2011 07:44 PM
Better than an aluminium baseball bat, broski
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 07:45 PM
Nawt really. At least with a bat you have better accuracy
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Angstrom93 is not online. Angstrom93
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 2118
10 Aug 2011 07:46 PM
Try guerilla attacks with a baseball bat

*runs at soldier with bat*
*gets shot*
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:47 PM
>Implying people won't leave the SF and the military in outrage towards absolutism and take their weapons with them.

Besides all they have to do is storm Buckingham Palace via rush, and kidnap the King and his family, after that because of nation outrage monarchist support will dissolve.
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 07:53 PM
Nope.

You are forgetting the Guards.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 07:55 PM
Guys with big black poofy hats? Oh yeah FEAR ME AND WEIRD HAT BECAUSE I DON'T SPEAK!!!

So a few die from gun shots, the rest mug him and disarm him, woohoo weapons for the invaders.
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 08:00 PM
Most of those guys are BAMFs.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 08:05 PM
Point?
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 08:08 PM
Retreat behind gates.

Dead protestors.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 08:11 PM
Considering todays protesters have been bringing molotov cocktails and flash and smoke grenades to their riots, you wanna rethink that? Not to mention even if the larger movement is quelled an underground assasination can easily occur.
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Twigs180 is not online. Twigs180
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Total Posts: 18664
10 Aug 2011 08:12 PM
Nope. Trust me. Helictopers would come and evac the royal family.
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Slayerman410 is not online. Slayerman410
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 8810
10 Aug 2011 08:15 PM
Where's the royal family going to go? If they leave the country, rebels win. If they hide along the country they will be eventually found and eventually killed. Not to mention the entire royal family of the British would take several helicopters.
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