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Re: A good gun clan couldn't beat a sword clan at swords

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leTactics is online. leTactics
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 4683
29 Nov 2017 02:08 PM
So why do gun clanners continue to make the inverse argument?
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CptArcadia is online. CptArcadia
Joined: 05 Sep 2015
Total Posts: 4080
29 Nov 2017 02:09 PM
unlike swords guns take skill
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nightberzerk is online. nightberzerk
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 3166
29 Nov 2017 02:09 PM
yeah like when rat lose to bhb

or is rat not good idk
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leTactics is online. leTactics
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 4683
29 Nov 2017 02:12 PM
Being a sword fighter takes no skill. Being a good sword fighter does.
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Alvaxic is not online. Alvaxic
Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 4006
29 Nov 2017 02:14 PM
if a gun clan keeps their gun base and a sword clan keeps their base, the gun clan would dominate silly sword fighters
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SilentMutiny is online. SilentMutiny
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 2818
29 Nov 2017 02:17 PM
The same can be said for either one. It would be silly to compare the two.

Both take a different style of learning to become good at.


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STlFF is not online. STlFF
Joined: 04 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1449
29 Nov 2017 02:17 PM
Sword clans would only fail at forts with that fixed defender and raider limit stuff

If you got forts like Green Gods and NAK do, a sword clan could easily take a number advantage and win


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Alvaxic is not online. Alvaxic
Joined: 27 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 4006
29 Nov 2017 02:19 PM
##### # ##### my money is on the gun clan lol
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LordHammy is not online. LordHammy
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 3647
29 Nov 2017 02:19 PM
It's like saying a Troop with a knife would win a gunfight, you can't compare the two
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Statfire is online. Statfire
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 5119
29 Nov 2017 02:19 PM
The same can be said for either one. It would be silly to compare the two.

Both take a different style of learning to become good at.
[2]
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Prince_Ator is online. Prince_Ator
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 13208
29 Nov 2017 02:36 PM
gun clans would win
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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
29 Nov 2017 02:38 PM
"WHAT I'M SAYING IS CORRECT WHAT YOU'rE SAYING IS WRONG"(no further arguments)
"NO WHAT I'M SAYING IS CORRECT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WRONG"(no further arguments)

>clans 2017


Onward.
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TheCelvestian is online. TheCelvestian
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 7130
29 Nov 2017 02:47 PM
I shall quote what I said about the continuous bashing of Sword Clans.


"At least with swords we don't try recycling them every time a new clan releases.

We have one reliable system that everyone can use and agree upon in our community, making it easier for sf clans to get along with each other and prosper. Hence why the SCC is doing so well in comparison to the gun clan community where they're constantly berating the sword community for doing just that, being a 'sword community'.

It's funny to see this condescending tone from gun clanners, however, not all of the gun community are completely washed up like the ones bashing us for liking a mechanic provided by ROBLOX.

Again, I just find it funny.

However, if you want to argue about 'recycled gun systems' every time a new clan releases you're more then welcome to. However, my point still stands that we only need to rely on one simple system, and because of its simplicity we enjoy it. You're arguing that we can't innovate nor can we progress as a community. Many washed up gun clanners argue this, however, what they fail to realize is there are many standing examples of clans who have improved melee mechanics and have not only innovated their group as a whole but incorporated features that would fail among-st the gun community for not being socially accepted. If you wish to continue to berate us about enjoying mechanics provided by ROBLOX you're more then welcome to, although you'll look pretty foolish doing so.

Another thing I'd like to add is how because of the simplicity of the sword system and how convenient it is, this potentially could be the reason as to why many washed up gun clanners are upset and choose to talk down on the sword community. Because we choose to stick with such a simple system you're making it seem as if we're the problem as to why the 'clan community is dying', when in reality most sword clans are doing a lot better then gun clans. The majority of new players are accustomed to simple sword mechanics, making it a lot more enjoyable to start off with as well and as a result develop a long standing love for the simplicity of the LinkedSword. However, with gun systems it varies because of how many times it has been remade and redone in different formats. Now don't get me wrong, a lot of what the gun community has produced is quite impressive indeed, however, it also expects too much of the average player to accustom themselves to a massive range of weaponry. Some like it that way, some don't. However, with swords we have one simple system that is socially accepted among-st our community and people love it. That's like trying to fix something that isn't broken. Again, however, many sword clans have taken it upon themselves to improve such mechanics and introduce newer animations and such.

Also to clear this up real quick, the term 'Sword Clan' applies to ALL clans using LinkedSwords as their primary or specialized weapon. This applies to GoT and select other genre groups as well. Everyone has improved their mechanics or have incorporated other features to make the simple system even more enjoyable then it is now. As for the 'War Clan - Sword Clans', they choose to stick with the simple system, allowing wars to run smoother then that of gun clans because of the consistency of the LinkedSword Fighting System and less conflict arising. However, that doesn't mean there isn't conflict. Oh there is, just not as much as the gun community. Our simple system also allows negotiations to go faster then that of gun clans considering no real modifications or changes are necessary to swords beside switching out between NA and OA, but that's just personal preference really.

Might I also add personal preferences play a part in how a clan is structured. You're arguing that sword clans should also cease to exist because of the inconsistency of their genre and how their tech is laid out (Ex: Sci - Fi setting but swords only) when it comes down to personal preference really. Also you could tie it into lore as to why this is swords only or something like that. TDW has so much lore that covers pretty much everything we're doing, however, our Sci - Fi Capital base is swords only, odd yes? That there is an instance where personal preference comes in. That's ROBLOX Logic where it doesn't have to make sense as long as it's fun. In actual lore there's obviously guns and all sorts of modified weapons, however, we're going for a more ROBLOX-based standpoint where nothing really *has* to make sense in order for people to enjoy it. In real time everything makes sense, however, for the sake of 'clanning' we're making it as enjoyable as possible, well, how we see it at least. Now don't get me wrong, it's a bit odd to see a Sci - Fi setting with swords, however, it's a matter of just personal preference. Might I also add that some clans do choose to have multiple bases of the variety (Ex: TDW has Gun base, Lightsaber base, and several NA Sword bases) and that's also a ROBLOX-based standpoint rather then a Logical Lore standpoint. Also you could argue as to how some old-time base settings have modern or Sci-Fi based guns, however, that's just personal preference on a ROBLOX-based standpoint.

If you really wish to constantly shame the sword community for enjoying themselves rather then bettering most of your communities (and trust me, y'all need some reforming done) then be my guest, however, you're wasting your time bashing us when you could be enjoying yourselves as well. We like what we do. You like what you do. Stop trying to purposely divide the community, one of the many reasons why people keep trying to argue that the 'clan community is dying'. It's not exactly dying but it is dividing, that's for sure.

Also before anyone gets offended, knowing some of you will, 'washed up' is referring to how radically assimilated you are to your respective community. Just making that clear.

I have more points to bring up but I'd like to see someone challenge this first. Knowing some of you will be pretty biased, however, you know most of this to be true.

I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I did typing it out.


"I do like taking a good bait. Debating is fun." Indeed it is."


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bowlpack is not online. bowlpack
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Total Posts: 32
29 Nov 2017 02:50 PM
tl;dr @cev


(ง ° ل͜ °)ง
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InfraredVision is not online. InfraredVision
Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Total Posts: 3343
29 Nov 2017 03:02 PM
swords take absolutely no skill and are entirely luck based, i can prove this by sword fighting you on mobile
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chrispykreme is not online. chrispykreme
Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 4075
29 Nov 2017 03:07 PM
I started off with sword clans but now I only do gun clans. Learning to become skilled with swords is much easier and takes much less time than becoming skilled with guns.

On top of that, the teamwork abilities you are able to do with swords is extremely restricted and not very necessary.
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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
29 Nov 2017 03:16 PM
"I started off with sword clans but now I only do gun clans. Learning to become skilled with swords is much easier and takes much less time than becoming skilled with guns.

On top of that, the teamwork abilities you are able to do with swords is extremely restricted and not very necessary."
fair enough lol


Onward.
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nightberzerk is online. nightberzerk
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 3166
29 Nov 2017 03:44 PM
lol chrispy think he skilled nope
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Nirys is online. Nirys
Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 2315
29 Nov 2017 03:54 PM
hi im nirys formerly known as arvax and im gonna explain to you this debate



swords:

well the swords that are normally used are made by roblox (can be found in roblox sets in studio)

they're readily accessible to everyone, and pretty much anyone who has been on roblox for at least a month and isn't a "noob" will have at least encountered them.

people will have some skill with swords regardless, but people with guns....
no.

guns:

most guns have learning curves like sta's or arsenals vs smgs or my SARs
arsenals have the crosshair thing which will throw a lot of people off ("whoa what is this? my gun is getting really bad")
sta's... are sta's.. not gonna insult them (my primary)

smgs and other guns like that are easy and self explanatory, they have ammo, a range, some (usually minimal) spread, damage, etc. they're not hard to use but you can easily learn tactics to beat anyone else in time. 𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐠𝐞𝐭 𝐠𝐨𝐨𝐝

re-swords:

swords are pretty easy to use, and people understand the concept
most people have been in a clan that used swords by now or another if you're a clanner, so you'll know how to use them and have basic strategy
the premise of them is to swing for a basic hit, and lunge for a good attack.
you'd want to dodge if someone attacks, etc..

if you practice, you'll develop skill and become better. 𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐠𝐞𝐭 𝐠𝐨𝐨𝐝



LESSON FOR ALL TYPES OF FIGHTING ON ROBLOX:
𝐢𝐭 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐠𝐞𝐭 𝐠𝐨𝐨𝐝


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Altair551 is online. Altair551
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 1168
29 Nov 2017 03:59 PM
in which i will prove that guns require more individual skill than swords

1. the nature of swords allowing you to force both players in an encounter to die ("force tie") means that even in a duel between the best and worst player there is a significant chance for a perfect stalemate

2. the nature of swords allowing for force ties means that in a given sword-based raid, the side with more combatants will win provided the other side does not have other significant advantages designed into the base. such advantages include a significantly shorter spawn-to-objective distance which would nullify the other team's higher rate of reinforcement.

3. the nature of guns not allowing for force ties means that the player who is more individually skilled *or* has an advantage in the encounter (e.g. flanking or greater cover) will win; or in layman's terms, the player who should win will win.

4. the nature of guns being ranged weapons means that a gun-based raid has far more basis in the skill of the combatants involved. while numerical superiority will always provide a large advantage, bases can be more easily designed to circumvent this advantage. for example, flanking routes that could only be efficiently guarded by a single or very small number of players -- thus allowing few skilled fighters to quickly overwhelm a similar number of less skilled fighters in a numerically tilted raid. in a sword base, the more skilled players can be force tied by the less skilled players or killed through a wall without a chance to react thus allowing the less skilled players to prevail over the more skilled players unfairly.

5. the nature of guns requiring significant manual adjustment means that there are more mechanics to master and more physical skill required than swords. in my view, there are three mechanics to the actual act of fighting with guns that fighters need to master -- crosshair placement, lateral movement, and jump timing. you can argue that swords require the latter two, but crosshair placement or the actual action of aiming is nearly absent in swords except for the rough "alignment" type aiming where you angle your body to counter the opponent's angling of their body. it can't be argued that you need better aim for sword fighting than gun fighting, and it can't be argued that dodging is more difficult and necessary in a sword encounter than a gun encounter.
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Wights is online. Wights
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 3063
29 Nov 2017 04:08 PM
RAT isn't that good.

Being in both sword and gun based groups I can say there is a level of technique to swordfighting but it is not as competitive as gunfighting.

With swords all you have to worry about is timing and angle whereas guns is map knowledge, spread, knowing when to pop and push fallback etc, angles, clans like VAK and SC add another layer to the mix with medi guns.

The point is there isn't just one layer to knowing how to gunfight there are a wide variety of guns and maps and intricate terminal systems that the sword clans just don't utilize

In short you have to have a larger knowledge of the community weaponry for guns and swords don't really change unless from NA to OA. I think a gun clan could take on a sword clan because swords are just easier to learn




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LordHammy is not online. LordHammy
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 3647
30 Nov 2017 11:34 AM
Wights made some very good points
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Kiritsugu is not online. Kiritsugu
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 7366
30 Nov 2017 11:36 AM
but they could

the point is that anyone with a brain can use a sword

takes real practice to aim a cursor accurately


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PoIonium is online. PoIonium
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 2902
30 Nov 2017 11:46 AM
my opinion on this is entirely based on past experience -

on average a gun clan has a better chance at winning at a sword clan fort because overall swords do require skill, but the skill ceiling is a lot lower in comparison to guns. there's not much tactics outside of "try to dodge lunge, lunge back to kill" (aware that my quote was probably pretty inaccurate in terms of general sword fighting)

ive raided multitudes of sword clans with the gun clans I've been in and I have little to no losses, this isn't a result of anything but the fact that swords are easier to comprehend at a sufficient/intermediate level, whereas when the gun clans I've been in get raided by sword clans, it ends up in an ultimate stomp due to higher requirements of understanding when it comes to game sense, tactics, etc


regardless of my opinion on whether or not one would win, I still think a lot of sword clans are better than the recycled garbage a lot of copier gun clans end up becoming. skill nation is one that ive seen that I can say is up there on the clan rankings because its genuinely a good clan.

whatever clan is "better" is purely subjective because many people judge a clans worthiness on different factors
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ATGuardian is not online. ATGuardian
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Total Posts: 634
30 Nov 2017 11:51 AM
I shall quote what I said about the continuous bashing of Sword Clans.


"At least with swords we don't try recycling them every time a new clan releases.

We have one reliable system that everyone can use and agree upon in our community, making it easier for sf clans to get along with each other and prosper. Hence why the SCC is doing so well in comparison to the gun clan community where they're constantly berating the sword community for doing just that, being a 'sword community'.

It's funny to see this condescending tone from gun clanners, however, not all of the gun community are completely washed up like the ones bashing us for liking a mechanic provided by ROBLOX.

Again, I just find it funny.

However, if you want to argue about 'recycled gun systems' every time a new clan releases you're more then welcome to. However, my point still stands that we only need to rely on one simple system, and because of its simplicity we enjoy it. You're arguing that we can't innovate nor can we progress as a community. Many washed up gun clanners argue this, however, what they fail to realize is there are many standing examples of clans who have improved melee mechanics and have not only innovated their group as a whole but incorporated features that would fail among-st the gun community for not being socially accepted. If you wish to continue to berate us about enjoying mechanics provided by ROBLOX you're more then welcome to, although you'll look pretty foolish doing so.

Another thing I'd like to add is how because of the simplicity of the sword system and how convenient it is, this potentially could be the reason as to why many washed up gun clanners are upset and choose to talk down on the sword community. Because we choose to stick with such a simple system you're making it seem as if we're the problem as to why the 'clan community is dying', when in reality most sword clans are doing a lot better then gun clans. The majority of new players are accustomed to simple sword mechanics, making it a lot more enjoyable to start off with as well and as a result develop a long standing love for the simplicity of the LinkedSword. However, with gun systems it varies because of how many times it has been remade and redone in different formats. Now don't get me wrong, a lot of what the gun community has produced is quite impressive indeed, however, it also expects too much of the average player to accustom themselves to a massive range of weaponry. Some like it that way, some don't. However, with swords we have one simple system that is socially accepted among-st our community and people love it. That's like trying to fix something that isn't broken. Again, however, many sword clans have taken it upon themselves to improve such mechanics and introduce newer animations and such.

Also to clear this up real quick, the term 'Sword Clan' applies to ALL clans using LinkedSwords as their primary or specialized weapon. This applies to GoT and select other genre groups as well. Everyone has improved their mechanics or have incorporated other features to make the simple system even more enjoyable then it is now. As for the 'War Clan - Sword Clans', they choose to stick with the simple system, allowing wars to run smoother then that of gun clans because of the consistency of the LinkedSword Fighting System and less conflict arising. However, that doesn't mean there isn't conflict. Oh there is, just not as much as the gun community. Our simple system also allows negotiations to go faster then that of gun clans considering no real modifications or changes are necessary to swords beside switching out between NA and OA, but that's just personal preference really.

Might I also add personal preferences play a part in how a clan is structured. You're arguing that sword clans should also cease to exist because of the inconsistency of their genre and how their tech is laid out (Ex: Sci - Fi setting but swords only) when it comes down to personal preference really. Also you could tie it into lore as to why this is swords only or something like that. TDW has so much lore that covers pretty much everything we're doing, however, our Sci - Fi Capital base is swords only, odd yes? That there is an instance where personal preference comes in. That's ROBLOX Logic where it doesn't have to make sense as long as it's fun. In actual lore there's obviously guns and all sorts of modified weapons, however, we're going for a more ROBLOX-based standpoint where nothing really *has* to make sense in order for people to enjoy it. In real time everything makes sense, however, for the sake of 'clanning' we're making it as enjoyable as possible, well, how we see it at least. Now don't get me wrong, it's a bit odd to see a Sci - Fi setting with swords, however, it's a matter of just personal preference. Might I also add that some clans do choose to have multiple bases of the variety (Ex: TDW has Gun base, Lightsaber base, and several NA Sword bases) and that's also a ROBLOX-based standpoint rather then a Logical Lore standpoint. Also you could argue as to how some old-time base settings have modern or Sci-Fi based guns, however, that's just personal preference on a ROBLOX-based standpoint.

If you really wish to constantly shame the sword community for enjoying themselves rather then bettering most of your communities (and trust me, y'all need some reforming done) then be my guest, however, you're wasting your time bashing us when you could be enjoying yourselves as well. We like what we do. You like what you do. Stop trying to purposely divide the community, one of the many reasons why people keep trying to argue that the 'clan community is dying'. It's not exactly dying but it is dividing, that's for sure.

Also before anyone gets offended, knowing some of you will, 'washed up' is referring to how radically assimilated you are to your respective community. Just making that clear.

I have more points to bring up but I'd like to see someone challenge this first. Knowing some of you will be pretty biased, however, you know most of this to be true.

I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I did typing it out.


"I do like taking a good bait. Debating is fun." Indeed it is."
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