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Re: what the hell is the concept of "difficult" forts

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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 01:24 PM
it's just another word for "unfair" forts, it shouldn't be this way


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Katz108 is online. Katz108
Joined: 08 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 4863
28 Aug 2017 01:38 PM
why would it be fair?
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Ajastra is not online. Ajastra
Joined: 01 Aug 2017
Total Posts: 1461
28 Aug 2017 01:39 PM
symmetric combat is boring and no games use it


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gamma2244 is not online. gamma2244
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 12481
28 Aug 2017 01:41 PM
There's a difference between difficult, and you know, actually taking a bit of coordination and teamplay to get the objective,


and effectively having the defenders spawn pretty much right ontop of said objective, and with objectively better gear.

LET'S GO DAEMON KICKING.
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Gryffudd is not online. Gryffudd
Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Total Posts: 102
28 Aug 2017 01:45 PM
The term for unfair fort has really been abused. Instead of being used on bases which are impossible to win, it's been used for any base which requires raider strategy to win at.

In real life, the offensive often is not equal in everything the defense. It is not impossible but it takes work to capture a fort, that is the point of having one.

In general, I believe the term "difficult fort" applies to bases which requires strategy to win at. The sides do not start out equal, the defense has a defensive advantage and it is up to the raiders to break that.
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Collin201 is not online. Collin201
Joined: 27 May 2011
Total Posts: 12394
28 Aug 2017 01:49 PM
forts are supposed to have a home team advantage


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Kirkman667 is not online. Kirkman667
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 9893
28 Aug 2017 02:11 PM
A fort shouldn't ###### to the people raiding it.
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hockeychris11 is not online. hockeychris11
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 13486
28 Aug 2017 02:12 PM
a fort should have a home team advantage I agree.


however, I disagree with the concept that you have to take full elites to raid forts now. it is ridiculous and hurts a lot of clans who may not be able to compete with that calibre of skill
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instaskills is not online. instaskills
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Total Posts: 16968
28 Aug 2017 02:13 PM
there's a difference

unfair is defenders having actual stupid advantages, such as an access to an armory when raiders dont, higher damage/more accurate guns, spawn way too close to the terminal, etc.

difficult is a base the layout/raid system that requires coordination and teamwork to win at

tldr:
difficult bases can be fun unfair bases cannot


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 06:59 PM
"unfair is defenders having actual stupid advantages, such as an access to an armory when raiders dont, higher damage/more accurate guns, spawn way too close to the terminal, etc.

difficult is a base the layout/raid system that requires coordination and teamwork to win at"





coordination and teamwork should be required from both teams

if that's the case then why even call it difficult

what i'm talking about is when some bases have different terminal timers for raiders/defenders that give raiders a disadvantage, spawning closer to objectives, etc

and ofcourse in rcl forts making the freaking raider's side completely empty of cover and giving defenders high ground


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:00 PM
"symmetric combat is boring and no games use it"
wtf

can you read that statement twice lmao


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:03 PM
"The term for unfair fort has really been abused. Instead of being used on bases which are impossible to win, it's been used for any base which requires raider strategy to win at.

In real life, the offensive often is not equal in everything the defense. It is not impossible but it takes work to capture a fort, that is the point of having one.

In general, I believe the term "difficult fort" applies to bases which requires strategy to win at. The sides do not start out equal, the defense has a defensive advantage and it is up to the raiders to break that."
yes the term "unfair" has been abused as a cop out from losing raiders
why should we simulate real life this is a game
"The sides do not start out equal"
that's unfair by definition lol



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TheDarkVaraug is not online. TheDarkVaraug
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 14685
28 Aug 2017 07:04 PM
I see everyone on here saying that "forts don't need to be fair".

But none of you are standing up and doing something about it.

TheDarkVaraug, Evan || Add 23,771 Posts


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Seviro is not online. Seviro
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 46758
28 Aug 2017 07:06 PM
how are they supposed to do something??

they're just saying that forts don't need to be fair


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TheDarkVaraug is not online. TheDarkVaraug
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 14685
28 Aug 2017 07:09 PM
If enough clans actually banded together, we could end this forts are either fair or unfair matter all toogether

People have been barking up this tree for years, but no one with enough influence does anything to help it.

TheDarkVaraug, Evan || Add 23,771 Posts


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:09 PM
The concept of homeland advantage is tearing an already crumbling clan community If you have a fair base, while the other clan has an unfair base using the homeland advantage excuse ofcorse a war wouldn't be possible unless one of you completely changes their base or they use a ### ################## ##### which obviously isn't very common Onward.
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SlayerJones is not online. SlayerJones
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 16731
28 Aug 2017 07:10 PM
Why are they called forts when the defenders don't spawn inside and protect it, always been a bugbear of mine


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:12 PM
The unfairness of forts could potentially ruin the competetive nature of clans, imagine this: you're basically giving clans the key to make bases ridiculous, as a developper myself i'm getting tons of ideas that could make a base not sound too difficult when you're raiding but impossible to win at.


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SlayerJones is not online. SlayerJones
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 16731
28 Aug 2017 07:12 PM
In my opinion a good fort is one that has a well designed layout which makes the raiders and defenders both use strategies to win. Offering one side benefits completely ruins this, both sides should have equally powerful weapons and tools


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TheDarkVaraug is not online. TheDarkVaraug
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 14685
28 Aug 2017 07:13 PM
Clans lose originality when you have to make a base 100% fair.

I'd understand it being a crazy challenge to win, but unwinnable, does take it a bit too far.

TheDarkVaraug, Evan || Add 23,771 Posts


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:14 PM
"Why are they called forts when the defenders don't spawn inside and protect it, always been a bugbear of mine"
No one is against that

But clans are competetive, and unbalanced forts throw that off

You can make a fort balanced yet keep the concept of spawning in and protecting your fort

Unfair bases do not, though.


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SlayerJones is not online. SlayerJones
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 16731
28 Aug 2017 07:15 PM
Define 'unfair' to me though.

There's a difference between a fort being unfair and a fort that is difficult and requires a cohesive team unit to win at


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:16 PM
"In my opinion a good fort is one that has a well designed layout which makes the raiders and defenders both use strategies to win. Offering one side benefits completely ruins this, both sides should have equally powerful weapons and tools"
100% With you

"Clans lose originality when you have to make a base 100% fair.

I'd understand it being a crazy challenge to win, but unwinnable, does take it a bit too far."
Originality and fairness.. how the hell did you string those two together

I get so many ideas for a fair fort that is original and fun, and alot of people can present great examples i bet.


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TheDarkVaraug is not online. TheDarkVaraug
Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 14685
28 Aug 2017 07:16 PM
The only clans that are "competitive", are those influenced by RCL ways.

Before RCL-standard fighting, Defenders spawned in the base, Raider fought into the base.

Hell, before terminals, we had flags that went up and down, and whoever controlled the flag, controlled the spawn of the base.

TheDarkVaraug, Evan || Add 23,771 Posts


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Emperor_Darkius is not online. Emperor_Darkius
Joined: 25 Oct 2012
Total Posts: 3522
28 Aug 2017 07:17 PM
"Define 'unfair' to me though.

There's a difference between a fort being unfair and a fort that is difficult and requires a cohesive team unit to win at"
You defined it yourself, no side gets an advantage over the other, the fort should be dependant on each side's skill and strategic abilities


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