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Re: "we hate cancer" group has returned to OT

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funkyfruitbowl is not online. funkyfruitbowl
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Total Posts: 8127
26 May 2017 10:19 AM
"cancer needs to be stoped" damn right it does
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HelloOperator is not online. HelloOperator
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 8003
26 May 2017 10:20 AM
this can be taken in many ways
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heerpdeerp is not online. heerpdeerp
Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Total Posts: 9481
26 May 2017 10:20 AM
uuhhh


-Karen
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unearthing is not online. unearthing
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2734
26 May 2017 10:21 AM
I believe there's a cure but the government is hiding it
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Acriliyo is not online. Acriliyo
Joined: 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 6505
26 May 2017 10:21 AM
The word "cancer" should have never been used as a insult
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DehIia is not online. DehIia
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Total Posts: 10436
26 May 2017 10:21 AM
Cancer usually is due to damage to the body in some way.
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 10:36 AM
"Cancer usually is due to damage to the body in some way."

More often than you might think, it is not actually caused by many outside influences. Yes, a significant majority is caused by environmental carcinogens (54 of which have been identified) and lifestyle habits, but a significant portion is also just caused by losing out on the genetic lottery. There's still usually a little carcinogenic kick required to actually start the malignant growth, but you can be born with a very large predisposition to malignancies, and some people can be born with exceptionally error-free genes.
It is true that some cancerous growths can be caused by physical damage to the body. Heart cancer, for example, usually arises after a heart attack. It's incredibly rare because your cardiac muscle cells don't really multiply as much as other cells (which is why heart attacks can leave really bad scar tissue on your heart), but if your heart gets damaged in some way, those cardiac muscle cells begin to pick up the pace, which opens up a perfect opportunity for a tiny malignant mutation to occur.
Cancer, even if you're born with a very bad predisposition, can be prevented in nearly all cases, we just don't really know how to do that yet. Like you said, cancer doesn't just happen, but preventing cancer isn't as simple as preventing damage to your body. It's a really hard epidemic to battle not only due to the abundance of environmental carcinogens, but because of the prevalence of genetic predispositions to cancer in most human populations. In order to truly eliminate cancer, we have to take a page out of the mole rat's book. They don't really get cancer because they just have great genetic safety measures to prevent it. We don't necessarily have to genetically modify the human population to develop a more error-free genetic code, but that would definitely be the best and one of the cheapest ways to do it.


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funkyfruitbowl is not online. funkyfruitbowl
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Total Posts: 8127
26 May 2017 10:38 AM
^ this
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 10:43 AM
"^ this"

Thank you, I think. :~)


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funkyfruitbowl is not online. funkyfruitbowl
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Total Posts: 8127
26 May 2017 10:49 AM
you're welcome haha
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ferrykeizer is not online. ferrykeizer
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 31056
26 May 2017 10:50 AM
I mean, I don't exactly like cancer either.
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SN0IPE is not online. SN0IPE
Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 7540
26 May 2017 10:50 AM
How did I know dapper was gonna give a whole textbook on cancer?
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Acriliyo is not online. Acriliyo
Joined: 29 May 2012
Total Posts: 6505
26 May 2017 10:51 AM
@dapper



I skipped all of that
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 10:52 AM
"How did I know dapper was gonna give a whole textbook on cancer?"

I didn't mean to. :~(


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DehIia is not online. DehIia
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Total Posts: 10436
26 May 2017 10:53 AM
More often than you might think, it is not actually caused by many outside influences. Yes, a significant majority is caused by environmental carcinogens (54 of which have been identified) and lifestyle habits, but a significant portion is also just caused by losing out on the genetic lottery. There's still usually a little carcinogenic kick required to actually start the malignant growth, but you can be born with a very large predisposition to malignancies, and some people can be born with exceptionally error-free genes.
It is true that some cancerous growths can be caused by physical damage to the body. Heart cancer, for example, usually arises after a heart attack. It's incredibly rare because your cardiac muscle cells don't really multiply as much as other cells (which is why heart attacks can leave really bad scar tissue on your heart), but if your heart gets damaged in some way, those cardiac muscle cells begin to pick up the pace, which opens up a perfect opportunity for a tiny malignant mutation to occur.
Cancer, even if you're born with a very bad predisposition, can be prevented in nearly all cases, we just don't really know how to do that yet. Like you said, cancer doesn't just happen, but preventing cancer isn't as simple as preventing damage to your body. It's a really hard epidemic to battle not only due to the abundance of environmental carcinogens, but because of the prevalence of genetic predispositions to cancer in most human populations. In order to truly eliminate cancer, we have to take a page out of the mole rat's book. They don't really get cancer because they just have great genetic safety measures to prevent it. We don't necessarily have to genetically modify the human population to develop a more error-free genetic code, but that would definitely be the best and one of the cheapest ways to do it.


I appreciate this. Read it thoroughly with thought on certain points. Thanks.
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SN0IPE is not online. SN0IPE
Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 7540
26 May 2017 10:54 AM
'I didn't mean to'
Don't worry I prob would've done the same. :/
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funkyfruitbowl is not online. funkyfruitbowl
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Total Posts: 8127
26 May 2017 10:55 AM
"whole textbook"

no offense given but that made me laugh a bit.
not that making me laugh is hard to do anyway
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 11:05 AM
"I skipped all of that"

Honestly, I probably would have too.

"I appreciate this. Read it thoroughly with thought on certain points. Thanks."

No problem!
I think people tend to really underestimate the gravity of the whole cancer situation, and sometimes they even think it's a bigger deal than it really is. Some people think eradicating cancer would be as simple as everyone adopting a healthier lifestyle, which is only partially true. Others think cancer is bound to be a huge global killer, and that it just randomly strikes without any warning, and that EVERYONE is prone to cancer.
Both are way too extreme views on really good points. If you just tone those two sides down a little, that's an accurate representation of the current cancer epidemic. Cancer can absolutely be reduced by adopting healthier lifestyles and eliminating environmental carcinogens, but that won't really do much at all. Cancer is the result of something fundamentally wrong with our DNA; it can make major mistakes. The only way cancer can be cured is by addressing that fundamental issue. It's not like smallpox or polio where you can just administer vaccines and get rid of the epidemic altogether. We essentially have to either rewrite an entire piece of our genetic code, or we have to find an alternative solution which acts as an extension of our immune system.
There are cancer vaccines in clinical trials, which is really cool. I won't get too deep into it, but this new vaccine (which utilizes CRISPR) could also replace all of our current vaccines for pathogens too. The future of immunity is looking really good.


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ferrykeizer is not online. ferrykeizer
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 31056
26 May 2017 11:08 AM
Unfortunately it's quite common for cancer to strike people who live perfectly lifes already.

I don't know if it's in the genes or anything, but literally anyone could get cancer. Healthy or not. The healthy ones just have less of a chance. I could get cancer, you could get cancer. Anyone could and it'd bum us out.

I'm glad science has helped in slowing it down and in some cases preventing it from escalating when treated on time. Unfortunately, we ain't quite there yet.
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 11:15 AM
"I don't know if it's in the genes or anything, but literally anyone could get cancer. Healthy or not. The healthy ones just have less of a chance. I could get cancer, you could get cancer. Anyone could and it'd bum us out."

It's just a problem with humans in general. All humans are born with a predisposition to cancer. In fact, very few animals aren't. Some humans can be born with more of a predisposition than others, and with the advent of consumer genetic mapping, those predispositions can be identified by directly looking at somebody's genes. We're definitely taking steps in the right direction.
Cancer, in most cases, does require a trigger. Your DNA certainly can make mistakes during replication on its own without any outside influence, but more often than not, it's an environmental trigger. We're surrounded by environmental carcinogens (54 that we know of), even if you live in the most sanitary environment. Even hormonal imbalances have been known to cause cancer, and that's not really an easy thing to fix. I've said this already, but the only way to truly eliminate cancer once and for all is to prevent those errors from occurring in the first place, and that can't really be accomplished by simply removing those carcinogens, because that's not really possible. The future of curing cancer (and even vaccinating against it) lies in CRISPR. That's where I'd put my money.


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ferrykeizer is not online. ferrykeizer
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 31056
26 May 2017 11:26 AM
Your argument sounds reliable and I would most certainly consider your view. After all it's a given that you're more informed about this than I. So thank you for enlightening me.
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appie8 is not online. appie8
Joined: 09 Jul 2016
Total Posts: 57084
26 May 2017 11:28 AM
"I believe there's a cure but the government is hiding it"

im pretty sure theres a lot of different cancers and they all need a separate different treatment and its not always as easy
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 11:40 AM
"Your argument sounds reliable and I would most certainly consider your view. After all it's a given that you're more informed about this than I. So thank you for enlightening me."

Nononono, you were right on the ball with what you were saying, I was just expanding on it. Anyone can get cancer because we all have that same predisposition.

"im pretty sure theres a lot of different cancers and they all need a separate different treatment and its not always as easy"

With our current treatment methods, yes, different forms of cancer require different forms of treatment, but that's once they have already BECOME cancer. All malignancies develop in the same way for the same reasons, so cancer PREVENTION could be universal. Preventing cancer, if done right, would be universal for all forms of cancer.


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ferrykeizer is not online. ferrykeizer
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 31056
26 May 2017 11:47 AM
''Nononono, you were right on the ball with what you were saying, I was just expanding on it. Anyone can get cancer because we all have that same predisposition.''

Oh I'm well aware I had a nugget of truth in there. But you were far more able to describe in detail of what this issue exactly means. For that I've shown the respect. :)
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DapperNarwhal is not online. DapperNarwhal
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24119
26 May 2017 11:51 AM
"Oh I'm well aware I had a nugget of truth in there. But you were far more able to describe in detail of what this issue exactly means. For that I've shown the respect. :)"

Awww, thank you.
I'm just more prone to ranting for a long time.


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