|
| 22 Jul 2016 12:01 PM |
A reply to Kazoko's post on page 12 of the forum thread "FoA - VAK War: Enough is Enough"
INTRODUCTION: Rather important as concerning the way of warfare between clans and what will be called the economy of the clan world, later on in the text.
MESSAGE: @Kazoko, I would quite agree with you, even in respect to our own group, the Vaktovian Empire, in pertinence to your theory. I believe as a robloxian issue of the world of clans and groups, it has become "universal" in the sense of the robloxian universe. Well, it is not necessarily so that the Vaktovian Empire must stand up for this "attitude" that you mentioned, and could so be changed for the greatest benefaction of the whole roblox clan community. However, as the trend seems to be normally set, it would be difficult to reverse this without a leading example and indeed, VAK potentially might take that role, but this is a political issue and would require some investment into the idea in order to put the change into effect. But maybe that is what they are already doing with the upcoming RoVerse.
By this post I mean no treachery at all towards VAK but merely a non-biased point of view, as we do not need to defend our actions in this regard if we see that they have also contributed to this dilemma of the present state of the clan world, as you pointed out, with clarity and oversketching sight.
I believe that, set differences apart, the clan world should cooperate towards a moral standard, just as in your example, and to be honorable thereby. We all need to be leading examples which will promulgate our whole - as presently needed - revolution towards the better in terms of clans and guilds.
Indeed we need to see the consequences of our actions in terms of war and so decide upon which is the right path in terms of its grander scheme of things including variously different consequenes. I myself hold the opinion that we should go back to the old ways of the groups, of the clan world, which is wherefrom the Vaktovian Empire first arose, sprung out of the lost times of forgotten eras.
I think that you did offer us some good criticism in terms of devaluation of the averege soldier in bringing only the elites into the battlefield, or handfully selecting them for higher advantage, even if seemingly the situations called for it in terms of this dilemma that we are currently placed in. We need to break this whole dilemma and get back to our old ways of the clan world, indeed, and fight honorably, justly, and not to be afraid of being defeated but fight rigorously, with whatever men or soldiers that you have got. As a whole, this improves our circulation of troops, increases their whole morale as well as preparatory training for further scenarios of similar kind as they will participate more. This may also increase the numbers with which a clan goes to war, in consequene benefitting what I shall here call "the economy of the clan world", which is rightly said based on this ciculation when the principles of good honor and moral standards are in place as by yourself advocated, Kazoko. The economy of the clan world is the activity of groups, the frequency of raids/defences on their bases, and this economy of the clan world is hindered by the fear to lose which results in dire consequences of locking ourselves up, or rather, locking ourselves up in similar manners results in dire consequences of the whole clan world, a sort of inflation to the "economy of the clan world". It must be critically noted that the ciruclation of the economy of the clan world is based upon, or promoted by, the principles of fighting justly, honorably and with having moral standards generally implemented in the clan world, at the level of overall groups in their warfare one with another.
I believe, simply enough said, that this is the solution to our present day dilemma, and unravelling this within the minds of all groups will increase our possibility of increasing the overall activity of the whole clans and guilds commuity (groups, as not necessarily the forums), thus increasing the activity of most clans, generally speaking, in terms of recruitment and activity, both in minor raids and defences and in larger wars. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
| |
|
ywis
|
  |
| Joined: 08 Aug 2014 |
| Total Posts: 12931 |
|
| |
|
Insurrect
|
  |
| Joined: 04 Oct 2013 |
| Total Posts: 22734 |
|
| |
|
espressos
|
  |
| Joined: 10 Jun 2011 |
| Total Posts: 17628 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 12:18 PM |
Finally someone in that damn clan owning up to their actions smh.
Tried to hire a stylist, couldn't style me, cant keep me under control im rowdy.
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
espressos
|
  |
| Joined: 10 Jun 2011 |
| Total Posts: 17628 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 12:46 PM |
It's crazy how this thread got ignored by the mass of C&G its just proof that everyone wants to see random ignorance spewed then someone owning up and fixing their mistakes.
Tried to hire a stylist, couldn't style me, cant keep me under control im rowdy.
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
| |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 12:48 PM |
kazoko never posted that, that was my post (https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194275981)
i'll type up a reply in a bit |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
| |
|
espressos
|
  |
| Joined: 10 Jun 2011 |
| Total Posts: 17628 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 12:49 PM |
Yeah I was gonna say ned I felt like you had already typed that, I gotta fix my quotes again smh.
Tried to hire a stylist, couldn't style me, cant keep me under control im rowdy.
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
kroxon
|
  |
| Joined: 24 Mar 2012 |
| Total Posts: 6600 |
|
| |
|
campy
|
  |
| Joined: 08 Jan 2008 |
| Total Posts: 24127 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 12:55 PM |
| devilish always keeping it real |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 01:02 PM |
Ned the plagiarist
That is your new name....
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
espressos
|
  |
| Joined: 10 Jun 2011 |
| Total Posts: 17628 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 01:09 PM |
Spike you do realize kazoko copy and pasted nederlandz post right?
Tried to hire a stylist, couldn't style me, cant keep me under control im rowdy.
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 01:24 PM |
Alright, so I generally agree with the majority of your post and I'm glad a member of VAK would like to move towards a higher moral standing within the clan world.
Since you are a member of VAK, please do not take the stuff I'm going to say personally, because I believe that its important to know not only how this came about, but its continuous effect on clans.
Assuming that you read my initial post (That Kazoko re-posted) or any of my other threads regarding VAK, I place the majority of blame for the advancement of this clan attitude of "doing anything to win" on VAK.
Now, this is very different than blaming VAK for individual clan issues and how they cheat. I have never advocated for this type of accusation.
When clans such as RAT have +2 damage on their guns and other clans cheating, I don't place full blame on VAK, it would be absurd (Yet people seem to think I do). These clans were dishonorable and should be accountable for their actions.
However, I think this continuous cheating by clans all falls under the advancement of the clan attitude of "doing anything to win." But, when talking about this clan attitude, I do believe that VAK has been the most influential clan and the clan that has most progressed it and made some of this detrimental stuff a "norm" for the clan world.
Not only did VAK make the greatest advancement of this clan attitude (In TGI/VAK war), I think the larger part is how they continue to do so. VAK showed the clan community that a clan can reach the top through these dirty tactics, but they also showed them that they can continue to stay at the top through cheating as well. Thus, VAK consistently progresses this clan attitude and has shown no intention of reversing their actions.
I appreciate your acknowledgment of VAK's doing, especially in the context of the devaluation of the average member.
However, I think in order to reverse this progression, I believe that it has to come from VAK itself. No matter how many people who C&G dislike VAK for their actions, no matter how many people join the clans that VAK fights, I think this detrimental ideology cannot be reversed without the cooperation of VAK.
Of course, small things can be done (I'm not saying VAK does this stuff, I am saying these are extremely small things that can go a long way). For instance, clans should not allow their members to post threads about winning or losing raids, especially out of war. Why should a clan be looked down upon for attempting to raid or losing a defense? This simply discourages clans from raiding even more and causes them to turn towards internal events.
Another thing is not restricting raids or defenses to elite members. I know this is something that you yourself acknowledged, but I think this can be a huge step in appreciating all members and getting more activity, or the "economy of the clan world" as you call it. I know this is frustrating for some clans, some (or most) people just don't like losing, but this mentality must be erased. What is so bad about losing a defense or raid, especially when its not even in war?
However, I think the largest thing that can be done, and this is where I think VAK needs to play a part, is changing the mentality about bases. In my initial post, I advocated the fact that the bases of the past were actually more fair and enjoyable than the bases of the present.
I think VAK and other clans assisted in the wave of harder bases that assisted in devaluing the average member, but I think VAK has taken it a step further which really could be disastrous. VAK, I think no one can argue, is a fairly influential figure in the clan world. Thus, this introduction of 15v15 at SMO really does have a bad effect on clans.
It is bad enough that clans have switched to lower server sizes with high defender counts, but now to the point of even numbers, it would only continue to devalue the average member. VAK has set the precedent more than any other clan that these numbers are acceptable, and clans only continue to make their fort more and more "even."
Any fort that forces even numbers is inherently unfair. Not only does it set the notion that every server is essentially a "final battle," but it only continues to force clans to not only use elites, but use "elites" that join just for wars, thus pushing their own members aside.
Also, "even" forts are simply put, not fun. Bases should be enjoyable, and the idea that every single clan should use "even" (Which they aren't actually even) bases are absurd. It in fact actually decreases the activity of the clan world. Clans no longer require 20-30 Raiders to raid bases, they only need about 12-18 now, and these Raiders tend to be the same people over and over again.
So, I think VAK is needed to reverse this attitude. I think a big step forward would be reverting SMO and decreasing the defender requirement. What ever happened to the days where SMO was 5v25, or even 7-8 defenders required?
I think more forts should focus on enjoyment rather than winning. This has to come about with higher server sizes and lower defender counts. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
Killah_S
|
  |
| Joined: 14 Apr 2012 |
| Total Posts: 9839 |
|
| |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 01:28 PM |
| At least SOME people in the clan world are finally realizing what I've been saying for years. But just like usual nothing is going to get done about it. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
espressos
|
  |
| Joined: 10 Jun 2011 |
| Total Posts: 17628 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 01:32 PM |
But just like usual nothing is going to get done about it. [2]
Tried to hire a stylist, couldn't style me, cant keep me under control im rowdy.
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 01:59 PM |
Take Devilish's words seriously, he is a wise veteran of Vaktovian being there since its very roots and knows how to fairly take a neutral stance on a situation and talk about the best interests for everyone.
|
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
campy
|
  |
| Joined: 08 Jan 2008 |
| Total Posts: 24127 |
|
| |
|
1337Pb
|
  |
| Joined: 01 Mar 2010 |
| Total Posts: 261 |
|
|
| 22 Jul 2016 02:16 PM |
| I agree that there should be generally accepted morale rules that the clan world agrees upon. On another "world domination" game I was playing we had unwritten rules that every clan followed to make gameplay fun and competitive for everyone and hopefully leaders of top clans can come to some agreements... |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
| |
|
Wolfane
|
  |
| Joined: 08 Mar 2011 |
| Total Posts: 6437 |
|
|
| 26 Jul 2016 01:36 PM |
Put simply, the issue is not that each individual set of leaders for every clan are afraid of losing. But rather, that everyone is skeptical of opposing leaders, and cannot trust that they don't only care about winning.
So instead of a blanket statement, a more productive solution would be to change the way we go about the process entirely. Which is the purpose of RoVerse.
On a smaller scale, this can be achieved by fighting wars on battlefields. Battlefields are maps which have a neutral objective, and offer no advantages to either side over the other. This format would be far easier to negotiate with, considering that you wouldn't have a need to trade fort benefits as you see with wars nowadays. Also, it leaves room for the server sizes to be larger. Meaning you would not have to fight with only elites.
It makes more sense lore wise as well. Forts should be for defending your territory, but wars should be fought on battlefields. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 26 Jul 2016 01:45 PM |
"Battlefields are maps which have a neutral objective, and offer no advantages to either side over the other. This format would be far easier to negotiate with, considering that you wouldn't have a need to trade fort benefits as you see with wars nowadays. Also, it leaves room for the server sizes to be larger. Meaning you would not have to fight with only elites."
Battlefields, warzones, etc. are not fort bases. Clans should not use these.
Systems such as RoVerse, Battle Network, etc. assists in the standardization of clans, something I don't believe is productive nor beneficial to the clan community.
Whether Vaktus goes ahead with it or not, I think fixing our clan >forts<, not battlefields, to make a more enjoyable raiding experience will have a greater effect.
This opens up clan bases to more Raiders and can help add value to the average member once again, especially in terms of clans appreciating VIP recruiting and introducing new people to the clan world.
Bases that don't allow these "new" people to raid only further cause inactivity between clans. |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|
|
| 26 Jul 2016 01:50 PM |
| I think the competitiveness of guns needs decreasing |
|
|
| Report Abuse |
|
|