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Re: An ode to every NBC complaining thread ever.
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rend00
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| Joined: 02 Oct 2013 |
| Total Posts: 760 |
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| 21 Jul 2016 11:49 PM |
This reply was originally posted by an S&Ier named SuperHero12346 on this thread: https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194106030, but it was so good that I felt that it should get its own spotlight.
WARNING: It is pretty long, but imo worth the read.
Once you finish feel free to post your thoughts and opinions on it and whether or not you support or don't support this statement. Thank you.
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"These kinds of threads are pretty standard, but they still annoy me. Every side of this argument annoys me.
The people against it who whine and whine "SHUT UP! BC IS ONLY $5!" and list all the reasons you should be able to buy BC and robux, and the people who agree with this and say "WAAAH!! ROBLOX IS SO GREEDY GIVE US DAILY ROBUX BLEH!" in a blatant ignorant fashion. Yes I am exaggerating, the sad part is not as much as you'd think.
Here's a news flash: nearly every argument and idea I've seen about this issue is nonsense, ESPECIALLY the mainstream ones that litter the forums. The fact is the thing you're complaining about is an economic issue; the problem is with the player economy. It isn't an individual issue, so it makes no sense to say that NBCs should get R$ because that would make the economy issue worsen. And it makes even less sense to argue about the various reasons and ways you could get BC because of the fact the issue lies within the economy, not the individual, and no matter how much people change their individual situation that doesn't change the economy's weaknesses. And those are just the average ones you see all over S&I, there's plenty more that are just as bad.
The only ideas and arguments about this topic that are actually brilliant are the ones that look at this from an economic standpoint, and evaluate the game as a whole and are in the mindset of the betterment of the game in general; the R$ fissions, the ODRs, the Place-in-the-Gears. But here on one side we have the people who refuse to work toward an actual solution and on the other are those who refuse to admit there's even a problem in the first place having the same base discussions over and over thread after thread never getting anywhere; and not just because the mods, admins or staff will never listen, but because this discussion has plateaued. You're at a dead end, making the same stupid cliche arguments over and over never actually making any intellectual progress because you were never looking at it the right way in the first place. Of course it's expected for the forums to be kiddish since this is a kids' game, but at the same time this same problem exists within some of the most elitist mentalities I've seen in the forums. A lot of S&Iers consider themselves leagues more superior than the riff raff, and you'd think they'd actually act like it.
First of all, yes there is a problem with ROBLOX's economy, but it is NOT that they're greedy or they should give away free R$. The problem is their business model is built entirely on COERCION. Coercion is a terrible tactic to employ in a business, especially one like ROBLOX because it rids the business of natural growth. When ROBLOX doesn't grow on its natural merits and instead on blatant coercion tactics employed on its current playerbase it there purchases aren't actually coming entirely of the players' free will and choice, but they are being slightly manipulated because they have already been primed enough to be able to be manipulated. This causes artificial success. It's not entirely pure. And because of this their success will become harder and harder to sustain because they're making all these expansions and making all these forced profits, but since they didn't come naturally they will eventually reach a roadblock where they will not continue and then the coercion cycle will intensify. The fact of the matter is if ROBLOX did not employ any coercion tactics they wouldn't have as nearly as much profits as they would right now. But that is not a reason to employ coercion tactics, that's as a reason to better your game so that you don't need them. Because coercion not only corrupts your success but corrupts your product, and that corruption has translated across the game as a whole and has brought down rapport in a lot of areas. It's because of this specific breed of business coercion that even though ROBLOX is expanding, it is not growing, and even though it has expanded into a new circle of competitors (Minecraft, STEAM, Unity, XBOX Live, etc) it's artificial success will never be able to bring ROBLOX to their level; a sad truth, because as a long time lover of ROBLOX I want nothing more than to see them experience true success as a game platform. In fact, if they continue to expand using successes made from coercion, they eventually will falter in sustaining their expanded empire. It's this long term threat that motivates people like me to post on threads like these.
Second of all, ROBLOX DOES NOT need to give away free R$ to better their game. They do not need to undo any updates. They do not need to give BC privileges away. They do not need to do anything except come up with a way to better their game and their profits instead of only bettering their profits with coercion tactics. In fact, they don't even need to actually come up with anything, people at S&I have done it for them, specifically Place-in-the-Gear which is meant to elevate ROBLOX's gameplay and Catalog, and R$ fission which is meant to fix and better ROBLOX's economy. ROBLOX's economy and gameplay needs to expand, not be hindered through paywalls and unnecessary taxes. Because there are MANY creative ways for ROBLOX to develop a player economy and business model that they can use to amass great wealth without coercion, because as it stands the game may be expanding, but thanks to the ROBLOX staff's decisions it is actually decreasing in actual value. But there's a time limit on ROBLOX being able to do this. If ROBLOX continues to corrupt themselves their false successes will cause their game to expand to a point where if they ever tried to go back on it they'd collapse even quicker. ROBLOX is killing the game slowly by taking shortcuts, and many people before me have come to tell you this and many more will afterwards until ROBLOX's fall. Thanks to these fatal flaws ROBLOX sadly will die, like we all will, and like all of us I hope not anytime soon. But ROBLOX had a chance at immortality, they had something really beautiful here, a game with infinite potential, but if they continue to squander it, it won't be long before the game is gone as we know it.
This is the ugly truth of the ROBLOX condition. Do with it as you will, but to conclude, this thread is poison and so are most of the opinions on here. The clock has started, and it's up to us to stop it.
I'll take my leave." |
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| 21 Jul 2016 11:54 PM |
The moment when you tried to open the actual thread to make sure its real:
"The post you attempted to view does not exist. Most likely, the message you are trying to view has been deleted by one of the site's administrators."
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rend00
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| Joined: 02 Oct 2013 |
| Total Posts: 760 |
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| 21 Jul 2016 11:55 PM |
@Nuteboy
Oh fr? Sorry that was my fault.
Here it should be fixed: https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194106030 |
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| 21 Jul 2016 11:57 PM |
Let me fix your grammar a bit
This reply was posted by an S&Ier named SuperHero12346 on this thread: https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=194106030, but it was so good that I felt that it should get its spotlight.
WARNING: It is pretty long, but IMO worth the read.
Once you finish feeling free to post your thoughts and opinions on it and whether or not you support or don't support this statement. Thank you.
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"These kinds of threads are pretty standard, but they still annoy me. Every side of this argument annoys me.
The people against it who cry and whine "SHUT UP! BC IS ONLY $5!" and list all the reasons you should be able to buy BC and robux, and the people who agree with this and say "WAAAH!! ROBLOX IS SO GREEDY GIVE US DAILY ROBUX BLEH!" in a blatant ignorant fashion. Yes, I am exaggerating, the sad part is not as much as you'd think.
Here's a news flash: nearly every argument and idea I've seen about this issue is nonsense, ESPECIALLY the mainstream ones that litter the forums. The fact is the thing you're complaining about is an economic problem; the problem is with the player economy. It isn't an individual issue, so it makes no sense to say that NBCs should get R$ because that would make the economy issue worsen. And it makes even less sense to argue about the various reasons and ways you could get BC because of the fact the issue lies within the economy, not the individual, and no matter how much people change their personal situation that doesn't change the economy's weaknesses. And those are just the average ones you see all over S&I; there's plenty more that are just as bad.
The only ideas and arguments about this topic that are brilliant are the ones that look at this from an economic standpoint, and evaluate the game as a whole and are in the mindset of the betterment of the game in general; the R$ fissions, the ODRs, the Place-in-the-Gears. But here on one side, we have the people who refuse to work toward an actual solution and on the other are those who refuse to admit there's even a problem in the first place. By having The same base discussions over and over thread after thread never getting anywhere; and not just because the mods, admins or staff will never listen, but because this debate has plateaued. You're at a dead end, making the same stupid cliche arguments over and over never making any intellectual progress because you were never looking at it the right way in the first place. Of course, it's expected for the forums to be kiddish since this is a kids' game, but at the same time, this same problem exists within some of the most elitist mentalities I've seen in the forums. A lot of S&Iers consider themselves leagues more superior than the riff raff, and you'd think they'd act like it.
First of all, yes there is a problem with ROBLOX's economy, but it is NOT that they're greedy, or they should give away R$. The problem is their business model is built entirely on COERCION. Coercion is a terrible tactic to employ in business, especially one like ROBLOX because it rids the business of natural growth. When ROBLOX doesn't grow on its intrinsic merits and instead on blatant coercion tactics employed on its current player base their purchases aren't coming entirely of the players' free will and choice, but they are manipulated because they have already been enough to be able to be manipulated. This causes artificial success. It's not entirely pure. And because of this, their success will become harder and harder to sustain because they're making all these expansions and making all these forced profits, but since they didn't come naturally, they will eventually reach a roadblock where they will not continue, and then the coercion cycle will intensify. The fact of the matter is if ROBLOX did not employ any pressure tactics they wouldn't have as nearly as many profits as they would right now. But that is not a reason to use coercion tactics; that's a reason to better your game so that you don't need them. Because coercion not only corrupts your success but damages your product, and that corruption has translated across the match as a whole and has brought down rapport in a lot of areas. It's because of this particular breed of business coercion that even though ROBLOX is expanding, it is not growing, and even though it has developed into a new circle of competitors (Minecraft, STEAM, Unity, XBOX Live, etc.true) it's artificial success will never be able to bring ROBLOX to their level; a sad truth, because as a long time lover of ROBLOX I want nothing more than to see them experimental success as a game platform. In fact, if they continue to expand using achievements made from coercion, they eventually will falter in sustaining their expanded empire. It's this long term threat that motivates people like me to post on threads like these.
Second of all, ROBLOX DOES NOT need to give away R$ to better their game. They do not need to undo any updates. They do not need to give BC privileges away. They do not need to do anything except come up with a way to better their game and their profits instead of only bettering their profits with coercion tactics. In fact, they don't even need actually to come up with anything, people at S&I have done it for them, specifically, Place-in-the-Gear, which is meant to elevate ROBLOX's gameplay and Catalog, and R$ fission which is expected to fix and better ROBLOX's economy. ROBLOX's economy and gameplay need to expand, not be hindered through paywalls and unnecessary taxes. Because there are MANY creative ways for ROBLOX to develop a player economy and business model that they can use to amass great wealth without coercion, because as it stands the game may be expanding, but thanks to the ROBLOX staff's decisions it is decreasing in actual value. But there's a time limit on ROBLOX being able to do this. If ROBLOX continues to corrupt themselves, their false successes will cause their game to expand to a point where if they ever tried to go back on it they'd collapse even quicker. ROBLOX is killing the game slowly by taking shortcuts, and many people before me have come to tell you this and much more will afterward until ROBLOX's fall. Thanks to these fatal flaws ROBLOX sadly will die, like we all will, and like all of us I hope not anytime soon. But ROBLOX had a chance at immortality, they had something breathtaking here, a game with infinite potential, but if they continue to squander it, it won't be long before the match is gone as we know it.
This is the ugly truth of the ROBLOX condition. Do with it as you will, but to conclude, this thread is poison, and so are most of the opinions on here. The clock has started, and it's up to us to stop it.
I'll take my leave."
-If you hate my stuff, Shut up and do better. |
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| 21 Jul 2016 11:59 PM |
| @rend00 thanks. That guy has made a real strong point :) |
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rend00
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| Joined: 02 Oct 2013 |
| Total Posts: 760 |
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| 22 Jul 2016 12:01 AM |
Lol you actually made a typo right here:
"(Minecraft, STEAM, Unity, XBOX Live, etc.true)"
There wasn't a true there in the OP. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 22 Jul 2016 01:39 AM |
| I've been thinking this for ages. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 22 Jul 2016 11:56 AM |
| Same. Both sides reached an infinite stalemate where they'd just post the same argument over and over. I could totally believe they were copy pasting at this point. |
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| 22 Jul 2016 12:10 PM |
O_O Now this was a surprise.
I'm glad you guys agree with me, but I don't need this spotlight :P |
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| 23 Jul 2016 03:16 AM |
Found this thread a while back, but I just finished it now out of boredom.
This pretty much summarizes my thoughts. |
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| 23 Jul 2016 11:32 AM |
Yeah. The only thing I don't like about today roblox is all the free stuff is sponsored junk. But what do I expect from free stuff? A Dominus? Yeah...
#code |
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| 23 Jul 2016 03:03 PM |
@EpicCrossingSwords
That's true, but there's a pretty big gap of possibility between those two extremes. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 24 Jul 2016 03:07 AM |
Bump.
I think it will be good if more S&Iers to know about this post. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 07 Nov 2016 12:18 AM |
I actually have a term for this doomsday scenario: Impflation, or implosion by inflation.
When ROBLOX coerces their profits, their gains aren't natural, so they're simply inflating their capital past their actual worth. When their growth doesn't correlate to their actual worth, it becomes harder and harder to improve their product in any meaningful way, aka natural, unhindered growth. Eventually this becomes their undoing when their actual product can no longer sustain their inflated capital, and the cycle of coercion collapses in on itself.
Imagine a big balloon inside a smaller balloon, the inner balloon is their coercive corruption, and the outer is their natural growth and worth. When the outer balloon isn't getting any bigger or barely any bigger, they start to blow up the inner balloon further in order to continue the "growth". As they inflate their capital, they force their "growth" to inflate as well, but the outer balloon can't contain this inflation and so it bursts. Eventually as they continue to inflate the inner balloon with artificial gains that balloon will eventually pop as well or collapse and fall out of the balloon, leaving nothing.
Now imagine if every time you blew air into the outer balloon instead of the inner balloon, most of the air escaped, but the balloon would slightly grow in size. But every time you blew air into the inner balloon, the outer balloon would slightly shrink in size, but all the air would stay in.
Now in this scenario which would sound smarter? Working hard to build up the outer balloon, or taking the easy route into oblivion?
I wish this were only a metaphor, but sadly this is ROBLOX's future if this continues. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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Inigo18
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| Joined: 02 Feb 2014 |
| Total Posts: 1041 |
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| 07 Nov 2016 12:53 AM |
| Why do you guys talk as if you knew whats going on? ROBLOX is popular bc of its games, not some silly economic ratings. This is when most people have joined ROBLOX. Its not going to die, all you want is "greedy" ROBLOX to give you free R$. The games are still FREE, they even removed the BC condition to play a game, where you needed BC to enter. BC, TBC and OBC are just an extra feature, not ROBLOX itself. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 07 Nov 2016 08:18 AM |
############## the whole post. Don't freaking skim. Actually ########### ### did you'd firstly know that he's actually aware that ROBLOX has been growing and expanding player-wise and platform-wise. What this thread was saying was that since their business model is built mainly on coercing their profits out of players at every turn they aren't actually growing but inflating their capital by taking the expansion route. Of course they're getting bigger, they just expanded to console and mobile! They just built their Youtube army. They just started a new promotion campaign. If they weren't getting more players and profits, that would mean things are WAY worse than what he said it is. But that's not because their core product has gotten better, it's because their taking the expansion route to inflate their current product.
You'd also know that the OP is against ALL SIDES. He literally made that clear in his first paragraph. That's how I know you didn't read it. He also opens TWO of his paragraphs with this. "First of all, yes there is a problem with ROBLOX's economy, but it is NOT that they're greedy or they should give away free R$." and "Second of all, ROBLOX DOES NOT need to give away free R$ to better their game. They do not need to undo any updates They do not need to give BC privileges away." If you're against the NBC complainers, then you and the OP have something in common.
What SuperHero was saying was when you inflate your capital instead of building your product eventually your capital will become too big to support the actual product, and your empire will collapse in on itself like the Romans. ROBLOX is using coercion and expansions to inflate their capital, but what's he saying is this is keeping them from improving the actual product, the substance that warrants natural capital, and if they don't actually improve the product they won't be able to sustain their expanded business. They're spreading themselves too thin.
It's like this: Let's say you're a LVL 5 player fighting on Floor 5. You get an average amount of gold and loot. Now what if I said for literally no cost you could move up to Floor 25, and then Floor 50, and then Floor 100, etc for little to no cost, and those floors give you more gold and better loot. When it's just going up a few floors you might be able to manage, but that only makes you arrogant enough to end up at Floor 100 WAY before you're ready. And even if you are on Floor 100, you are still a LVL 5. You may be getting more loot and gold for a time, but the LVL 100 monsters will easily kill your LVL 5 self and it wouldn't have mattered. Your empire has fallen.
Now, knowing this possibility, would you have went to Floor 100 right away, or would you have worked to level yourself up first? I hope you have more sense than ROBLOX does in this regard. Their expansions may have garnered them more short-term players and profits, but their updates have suffered. Their production schedule has suffered. They've scrapped literal projects (like group wars and user-created Catalogs). They're not doing nearly as many events as they used to and are literally just milking sponsored items and Dev Events. Their actual YouTube channel is dying (their Twitch and Twitter would have as well if they didn't have people specifically for that). Almost none of the moderators and administrators are active on the forums. They're spreading themselves too thin and they can't round themselves out. All because they wanted to coerce a few easy profits out of walling in their product with constant paywalls and make some quick cash off of getting on the expansion bandwagon. Sorry, but bigger doesn't always mean better. Anything can get profits if it has the right expansions, platform and marketing, even if it's crap. But crap universally has a short shelf life.
Sorry if I blew this out of proportion, but I hate it when people use straw man arguments. |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 07 Nov 2016 08:19 AM |
| Read the whole post. Don't freaking skim. Take the time to read it*** |
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Jascha
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| Joined: 19 Jun 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1447 |
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| 07 Nov 2016 08:21 AM |
If you did you'd firstly know***
Why did this thing group my paragraphs together? |
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| 07 Nov 2016 08:40 AM |
@Jascha
It basically boils down to two sides, like OP said:
"But here on one side we have the people who refuse to work toward an actual solution and on the other are those who refuse to admit there's even a problem in the first place."
Inigo chose the latter, but the smart people choose neither. But to be fair judging by that straw man he just made he doesn't actually know what the OP was talking about.
ROBLOX is expanding, that's undeniable, but that's only because there's more players coming in then there are leaving. They're gaining more income than they're losing so it masks the losses. Some would say that because of this the people who left don't matter, but I'd say at the very least the message they convey does. ROBLOX's expansions are propping up it's product, but the product is actually getting worse than it was before. And you think that them growing in profits and players is anything special when they just expanded to mobile AND console??? That's NOTHING SPECIAL XD. If they weren't growing in profits and players from this that would mean ROBLOX is nearing its last breaths.
The difference between Inigo and us is that we are looking at a broader perspective. Inigo still thinks that Free BC and R$ are what matters and that's what everyone who doesn't agree with him will continually demand, but we see past his horizon. We know that the only thing that can make ROBLOX better is making its product better, and how do you make your product better? By actually improving on its base concepts, the things that turned the dream into an actual business. For ROBLOX, that foundation would be the concept of infinite potential and possibility. ROBLOX has now corrupted and transformed this original ideal into a corporate empire, but we know that their product is the only thing that can sustain this new empire, and that's why we're here trying to stop it from deteriorating.
This is what makes this thread different. While people argue over Free R$ and Free BC and Ticket removal, we support R$ fission, and Place-in-the-Gear, and ODR. Because we see that ROBLOX's salvation is our own, we won't complain about pointless and illogical things. And we won't sit idly by and watch ROBLOX slowly implode itself either. That's because, like very few people do, we actually care. Not many can say the same. |
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Inigo18
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| Joined: 02 Feb 2014 |
| Total Posts: 1041 |
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| 07 Nov 2016 12:32 PM |
| Oh god, my bad. I actually thought this would be another free BC and free ROBUX complaint, when it isn't. I should've read the entire thing, I apologise and remove my last commentary. Sorry! |
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