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Re: What is the proper way to make a filtering enabled gun?

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dave2011 is not online. dave2011
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 10581
11 Jul 2016 11:12 AM
I want it to raycast, no need for bullets, but I also want it to have animations and be as realistic as possible, I don't want you to post any scripts but stuff like what should the client do, what should the server do, and maybe some pseudoscript


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dave2011 is not online. dave2011
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 10581
11 Jul 2016 12:00 PM
bump, how is recoil made(I don't think you can manipulate the position of the mouse, do they move the camera or what?), how do I make bullet sounds, etc.


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RoyStanford is not online. RoyStanford
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 2222
11 Jul 2016 12:57 PM
Stuff that shows up for everyone should be done on the server, like drawing the ray bullet. Animations should be done on the client. Recoil can be done by changing the coordinate frame of the camera on the client.

Games like phantom forces however use very complex networking which means everything happens on the client and the server merely acts as a intermediary.
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dave2011 is not online. dave2011
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 10581
11 Jul 2016 12:59 PM
how does phantom forces do it?


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RoyStanford is not online. RoyStanford
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 2222
11 Jul 2016 04:21 PM
Pretty much everything you see is done on every person's client. The server merely tells everybody what to do. For example:

--client
function b1down()
bulletEvent:FireServer(parameters)
end

bulletEvent.OnClientEvent:connect(function(parameters)
drawBullet(parameters)
end)


--server
bulletEvent.OnServerEvent:connect(function(plyr, ...)
bulletEvent:FireAllClients(...)
end)

Obviously it's more complicated than that but that is the general idea.
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dave2011 is not online. dave2011
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 10581
11 Jul 2016 04:22 PM
how does he check that the bullet isn't being hacked on the clientside tho?


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RangerDelta is not online. RangerDelta
Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Total Posts: 1194
11 Jul 2016 04:23 PM
One of the main considerations with guns is what you will allow the client to handle and what you will allow the server to handle. There isn't necessarily a right way, you can value network lag or security, it's a delicate balancing act. For example, when the player clicks, should we just tell the server their mouse position after a check or two? Or should we cast the ray on the client and just do the drawing on the ray server-side.

Games like Phantom Forces, as RoyStanford correctly said, are using more complex networking.

Now what I would personally do is draw the ray on the client, inform the server, and fire all the other clients to draw rays on them too.


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RangerDelta is not online. RangerDelta
Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Total Posts: 1194
11 Jul 2016 04:24 PM
And let me also inform you that even Phantom Forces isn't bulletproof from hackers. Sending malicious remote input is something exploiters seem to be doing more and more. I saw one YouTube video a few weeks ago where some guy in PF was standing still - not moving at all, shooting straight forward and just killing everyone everywhere.


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Lord_Narwhal is not online. Lord_Narwhal
Joined: 05 May 2012
Total Posts: 3242
11 Jul 2016 04:27 PM
@Roy

how does that work though

like how can you detect like let's say, a touched event if all the parts are client side?

wouldn't the server not see the part

it doesn't make sense to me


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RemasteredBox is not online. RemasteredBox
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Total Posts: 2140
11 Jul 2016 04:27 PM
I created an aim-bot for PF then sold it for $50 to some kid with RC7. He used a CC too so either he stole his mom's card or he begged and cried, lolz.

It was extremely easy, I just had to override PF's camera every frame.


#code print("while false do end")
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JarodOfOrbiter is not online. JarodOfOrbiter
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 20029
11 Jul 2016 04:29 PM
Most of the people I've seen don't actually get around FE.
The ones I've seen that have been popular recently, I have been told make people's heads huge, so they can knife headshot while staying still.


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RangerDelta is not online. RangerDelta
Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Total Posts: 1194
11 Jul 2016 04:30 PM
Remastered, you're really ruining the game though, come on man, don't do stuff like that.


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RemasteredBox is not online. RemasteredBox
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Total Posts: 2140
11 Jul 2016 04:32 PM
@Jarod

With PF, there are much better methods. Teleport them in front of you client sided, or override the camera.

@Guy who said I'm ruining game

I only sold it to one kid, at a ridiculous price, and it never got leaked. I caused little to no harm, that's just 1 kid. That's 1 server for maybe a few hours a day. Plus dude I need to make money somehow :/


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Lord_Narwhal is not online. Lord_Narwhal
Joined: 05 May 2012
Total Posts: 3242
11 Jul 2016 04:33 PM
@Renastered

some argue that pointing out flaws in roblox's security system will make them notice and force to act on it

so you are somewhat, to a small degree, helping roblox notice these exploits


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RangerDelta is not online. RangerDelta
Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Total Posts: 1194
11 Jul 2016 04:35 PM
Well if we're going to talk about this as if it's true vulnerability disclosure - which in a way I suppose it is, that's total hogwash as an argument if you don't inform the company ahead of time and give them a window in which to fix it.


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RemasteredBox is not online. RemasteredBox
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Total Posts: 2140
11 Jul 2016 04:36 PM
@Lord

I don't care. I already have much better methods; I've already managed to fake server sided verification for remote events in PF, and unless he changes the arguments, I'm set. It took me hours of guessing though LOL.


#code print("while false do end")
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JarodOfOrbiter is not online. JarodOfOrbiter
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 20029
11 Jul 2016 04:36 PM
"With PF, there are much better methods. Teleport them in front of you client sided, or override the camera"

How is that better? You can't get headshots without extra effort, and with the latter you still can't shoot people through walls. The head idea works though.


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Lord_Narwhal is not online. Lord_Narwhal
Joined: 05 May 2012
Total Posts: 3242
11 Jul 2016 04:36 PM
you're correct, ranger

there was some game called toontown online that closed because of hackers

but the hackers said they were trying to force the devs to patch the exploits

so yeah, a lot of people don't like that argumentative reason


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Lord_Narwhal is not online. Lord_Narwhal
Joined: 05 May 2012
Total Posts: 3242
11 Jul 2016 04:37 PM
"I don't care. I already have much better methods; I've already managed to fake server sided verification for remote events in PF, and unless he changes the arguments, I'm set. It took me hours of guessing though LOL."

that's actually kind of impressive lol


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RemasteredBox is not online. RemasteredBox
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Total Posts: 2140
11 Jul 2016 04:38 PM
PM me if you have a way to execute code, I'll tell you the arguments for things.


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dave2011 is not online. dave2011
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 10581
11 Jul 2016 04:40 PM
Remastered if I give you the arguments for remote events in my game can you work with me to make them unhackable?


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RangerDelta is not online. RangerDelta
Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Total Posts: 1194
11 Jul 2016 04:41 PM
It's really quite hard to make them "unhackable" as the fundamental flaw really ends up being a local script execution vulnerability. As long as they have that they can do what any other normal client can do, which is quite dangerous even with filtering and proper server-side validation.


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RemasteredBox is not online. RemasteredBox
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Total Posts: 2140
11 Jul 2016 04:42 PM
@Dave

You can make it hard with server sided verification's but there is no way to make them "unhackable". They're will always be ways for them to fake the information passed from the client, unless you figure out how to make your game polymorphic, which would be pretty hard and maybe even impossible.


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dave2011 is not online. dave2011
Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Total Posts: 10581
11 Jul 2016 04:43 PM
well I have a player building system in my game using remote events and it checks if the part is between two pillars or whatever before building


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RemasteredBox is not online. RemasteredBox
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Total Posts: 2140
11 Jul 2016 04:44 PM
Actually, I'm just going to go ahead and say it's impossible to do anything more than server sided verification. Assuming your using your own algorithms to make it polymorphic, and they managed to find out what they are, they could bypass that. And on top of that, they could just bypass CE and then re do it every game. And on top of that, Lua is so high level that I don't even think you can actually utilize polymorphism.


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