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Re: The Brexit has got to be one of the dumbest decisions

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kingkendrick141 is not online. kingkendrick141
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 12172
24 Jun 2016 09:34 AM
Honestly, I don't see why anyone would have ever voted for it.

First off, it's a hyper conservative decision. Conservatism makes sense to me, but it's only when you've thought it through and looked at all of the consequences. When you make a brash decision in any political alignment that doesn't think through all of the consequences, there's going to be a huge risk with that. So let's get that out of the way: This isn't a dumb decision because it's conservative, it's a dumb decision because it was clearly thought through to precisely 3 hours after it's been completed, and everything after that is "eh, let's see what happens."


Well, what happens is that they get screwed over.
The reason the UK wanted to leave the EU in the first place is to avoid regulations in trade and immigration and regain sovereign control over more internal decisions. Which are all respectable desires for a country to have. But the fact that the U.K. has 50% of its trade with EU countries means that they'll still have to obey EU regulations. It's the same thing with the US trading to EU countries. We have to fit their regulations for our products to be able to legally be sold. So if the UK wants to avoid losing 50% of its international economy, it still has to comply to those product and trade regulations. As far as immigration goes, EU immigration only ensured that EU citizens would have right and free travel to live in any country in the EU and immigrate or move between any member state. And when it comes to the UK, more than 2 thirds of the immigrants, some 3 million people, don't fall into that category of EU citizens, which means that the UK had control of 2/3rds or more of its border regardless of EU regulation. As far as sovereignty goes, the UK has actually lost its voice in EU affairs(remember, the EU runs off of a council of member state delegates) and because of that have actually lost sovereign power in terms of foreign affairs. Now, the UK is left with significantly less of an ability to influence affairs and events in a more complex global atmosphere.

Then there's the uncertainty of the UK's economy because of this. Either it will collapse as foreign companies and banks withdraw due to it no longer being a "gateway to the EU" and having several benefits assisting companies doing business in the EU, or it will inflate into something like Singapore's economy, driven by the uncertainty of surrounding economies as more companies and investors flock to the UK to ensure that their assets would be safe in case of the dissolution of the EU. But that's a high upside/high downside situation. Sure, the UK stands to gain a lot of the EU collapses and every investor and company east of the channel flocks to them. But on the other hand, they risk going potentially 3rd world if the EU remains alive. And that's a downside that is almost not worth it.

The survival of the UK at this point depends on the survival of the EU. If the EU fails, the UK will likely prosper, and vice versa.

Past that, in terms of security, the UK is giving up access to records and information on terrorists and dangerous persons who have passed through any EU country. Sure, the UK is now in control of its borders, but it's like trying to play goalie blind. If you can't see the ball come at you, you're probably not going to block it, and that's how it is in this situation.

There's also been discussed potential for Scotland and N.I. to leave the U.K., and there's just an endless list of things that can go wrong because of the brexit.

But what would have happened if the UK stayed in the EU? Probably nothing. They would have benefited from EU security regulations and dossier sharing, would have benefited from not having to take an enormous economic risk within their country, would have benefited having an outside agency handle a non-problematic sector of its immigration, would have benefited from retaining sovereign control and influence on a greater global stage, so on so forth.

Nigel Forage and his buddies are idiots tbh
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BlackHawk100 is not online. BlackHawk100
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 15675
24 Jun 2016 09:36 AM
The working class doesn't give a damn
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kingkendrick141 is not online. kingkendrick141
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 12172
24 Jun 2016 09:37 AM
well they're gonna in 5 years when they're calling to reupp the union, assuming its still around.
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Morikiyo is not online. Morikiyo
Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Total Posts: 2718
24 Jun 2016 09:37 AM
hey when am I getting those guns
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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 09:37 AM
oh man. not even British but from my view i think they should've stayed in.


zap zap
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blazethekiller11 is not online. blazethekiller11
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4955
24 Jun 2016 09:38 AM
everyone who lives in major cities like London all wanted to remain

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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 09:39 AM
hey at least you don't have trump as a candidate.


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BlackHawk100 is not online. BlackHawk100
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 15675
24 Jun 2016 09:40 AM
no but they do have nigel garbage
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Arcarius is not online. Arcarius
Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Total Posts: 20844
24 Jun 2016 09:42 AM
scottish independence and irish unity is on it's way at least



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ImperialOutcast is not online. ImperialOutcast
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 12054
24 Jun 2016 09:46 AM
I don't know where your pulling these statistics out of, I'm guessing your arse, because they're totally false and never happening. You're blatant biased opinion is so degenerating it's horrific.

The United Kingdom made a lovely decision, the EU is degrading and will likely degrade until there's nothing left. Terrorist are allowed to roam free killing innocent victims, economics is all debt and debt and debt there's really no money in the EU.

Short-Term this will be a difficult time for the UK, long-term they're expected to benefit off this decision and remain a world power while the EU crumbles.
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kingkendrick141 is not online. kingkendrick141
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 12172
24 Jun 2016 09:47 AM
honestly trump is better than clinton and sanders socialism scares me personally more but how damaging brexit will be vs trump depends entirely on two things
first off it depends on how much trump works with congress if he wins. If he does actually put out effort to work with congress(unlike our current president), he might actually be pretty damn good. The callsign of almost every bad president has been an inability to work significantly with congress, and it's a trend that has been set in stone over the past 3 or 4 terms.

Along with that, if the EU collapses, then everything I've pointed out will become insignificant as an enormous amount of investors, bankers, and major companies will hop ship over to the UK and establish the UK as a "european singapore." That all depends on how well the EU takes one of its largest economies leaving. And if it takes it well, it all goes to bust.

Trump might seem like a bad decision on the outside, but from a conservative standpoint, the other options are way scarier. It's not "Trump or survive", it's "Trump or civil right death of US or socialist death of US."
Trumps the only candidate who presents any slimmer of hope that we'll survive the next 4-8 years.

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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 09:47 AM
imperial it sounds like you're speaking out of your ass


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ImperialOutcast is not online. ImperialOutcast
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 12054
24 Jun 2016 09:53 AM
How is Trump even considered bad? He's the owner of a successful billion dollar industry and his track record is non-existent compared to Hillary Clinton. His plans for reform are brilliant, if you've read them online, and the fact that anyone who tries to use their democratic biased statistics, because Obama hasn't lied before on facts, is beyond me.


Hillary is an idiotic person who doesn't understand economics, just ask her she's giving control over to her "husband" on that point. I wonder who she gave her email cyber security to? The kid next door who knows how to setup home servers? Call me rude, I don't honestly care. I can be rude as long as I've got facts backing me up and the truth, Democrats have literally NOTHING on trump which is why Hillary has to play to their emotional side calling him "Nuts" and a "Psychopath"
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Pumped54 is not online. Pumped54
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 5176
24 Jun 2016 09:54 AM
"Short-Term this will be a difficult time for the UK, long-term they're expected to benefit off this decision and remain a world power while the EU crumbles."

hi, this is actually the opposite.

short term effects will not be noticeable, but long term will.
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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 09:54 AM
i have to disagree with you on trump. i dont like Clinton but i dislike trump a lot more. i doubt trump would work with congress because he's going to piss everybody off, more than he has now.

and really Obama was able to pass things in his first term when both the house and senate were controlled by the democrats and he was able to pass a lot of things like Obamacare but he could've done more. but after the republicans took back the house and senate their own goal has been to block anything pushed by Obama. that's why they haven't gotten anything done because they don't want anything done.

Clinton will likely be a similar presidency to Obama but slightly more to the right. Trump is just a wild card who really has no clue how anything work in the world. He was actually for Brexit, "one of the dumbest decisions."


zap zap
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ImperialOutcast is not online. ImperialOutcast
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 12054
24 Jun 2016 09:55 AM
@Zapolean

I didn't even give a statistic, which means nothing is coming out of anywhere.

The OP used two false statistics claiming 50% for two different topics and didn't even cite any source of information. I'm currently not home to do so and do a full essay research paper, which I've done before, over this.
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BlackHawk100 is not online. BlackHawk100
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 15675
24 Jun 2016 09:56 AM
bankruptcy is a brilliant tool that lets Donald trump keep his money while his business partners go broke

I don't know how people can justify voting for him on any level considering his insane statements but whatever man if you hate Hillary Clinton that much do whatever you want
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ImperialOutcast is not online. ImperialOutcast
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 12054
24 Jun 2016 09:57 AM
It's confirmed, Zapolean is a democratic liberal whose blinded by Obamas actions.

Want to know why Obama got stuff done in his early term? Because democrats owned it all, do they own it all anymore? No. Want to know why? Because the entire Democratic Party has been proven idiotic in Congress's and the White House and everyone wants this "mess" to be over with.


Get off this forum and go to ATR or OT because this is a republican sub-forum, not a liar forum.
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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 09:57 AM
@imperial

He's considered bad because he's a supposed billionaire. He just says he his by overestimating his wealth. He has very little experience in politics compared to Clinton who's been secretary of state and a senator. And not to mention Trump has gone bankrupt 4 times with 4 different business.


zap zap
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Morikiyo is not online. Morikiyo
Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Total Posts: 2718
24 Jun 2016 09:59 AM
https://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=191918162

Tell me I'm not wrong.
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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 10:00 AM
"It's confirmed, Zapolean is a democratic liberal whose blinded by Obamas actions."

ah yes. And you're some nutjob that wears a tinfoil hat!

"Want to know why Obama got stuff done in his early term? Because democrats owned it all, do they own it all anymore? No. Want to know why? Because the entire Democratic Party has been proven idiotic in Congress's and the White House and everyone wants this "mess" to be over with."

They didn't loose it all. if trump actually became president (highly doubt it with his poll numbers crashing) he'd basically give the democrats the house and senate back and we'd back to the same thing with almost nothing getting done.


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Pumped54 is not online. Pumped54
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 5176
24 Jun 2016 10:01 AM
"They didn't loose it all. if trump actually became president (highly doubt it with his poll numbers crashing) he'd basically give the democrats the house and senate back and we'd back to the same thing with almost nothing getting done."

just want to chip in, this is an important point.

he's polling pretty badly vs hillary and he polled pretty badly vs sanders too.

once sanders finally stops splitting the dems, hopefully his supporters aren't stubborn enough to abstain from the vote and give the republicans a chance.
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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 10:03 AM
lets also not mention his racism, bigotry, insulting a disabled reporter, and scamming people with trump university.


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Zapolean is not online. Zapolean
Joined: 05 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 9217
24 Jun 2016 10:04 AM
yeah i bet eventually Sanders will convince most of his voters to go for Hillary because he sees how bad trump is.


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kingkendrick141 is not online. kingkendrick141
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 12172
24 Jun 2016 10:04 AM
@ImperialOutcast

OK so, let's get this straight.
The UK will still have to follow regulations its trying to avoid if it wants to retain 50% of its foreign trade, which goes to the EU.
And stopping terrorism isn't that simple. Being in the EU was actually beneficial to security because it allowed dossier sharing. Dossier sharing is the sharing of pertinent information of suspected or confirmed terrorists and dangerous persons in order to prevent their movement and activity. That's hugely important in counterintelligence and counterterrorism, anyone with a basic knowledge of foreign security would tell you that, and the UK is giving that up without any evident followup plan. The danger over the next 10 years alone that'll lead to for the UK is terrifying. Furthermore, the monetary risk is enormous. If the EU keeps on keeping on, which it very well could(mind you, it's still sustained to a point by France and Germany, and it no longer has to sustain its bargain with the UK), Britain will lose investors, lose bankers, lose foreign companies, all because they'll no longer see the UK as a gateway to the EU. The only way that the UK benefits is if the EU fails sometime in the next 10-20 years, and that's not a given, certainly nothing to make such a risky decision on.

And somehow, after all of that, it's not a "scary" or "risky" or "undersighted at best" decision, it's a "beautiful decision"?! Come on. I respect the british people for attempting to gain sovereignty and a degree of self-determination back, but to be honest this hasn't done either of those things and they've really been short sighted when making this decision.



And as far as my sources, I've looked at various UK news sources from BBC to express(which helpfully provided both sides of the debate, hello rogerian argument :-)) so, no, didn't exactly pull this out of my arse.

Remember, I'm not affected by this. I live comfortably in Ohio, don't invest or have investment dependencies in the U.K., frankly just don't care what's going on over there because it tends to have minimal effect on me. I'm just looking into it because I'm interested in politics and the like. And I'm also pretty conservatively aligned. Brexit is an uberconservative movement. Shouldn't it make sense that, if I was biased at all, I'd be biased towards brexit? So I don't get how I'm being biased. If anything, you're being biased in this situation because, first you just dismiss the valid evidence and information I've brought up from valid sources on both sides of the debate as "pulled from my arse" without providing any information or proof to the contrary(Something you really have to do when you're trying to denounce someone's argument as false), and then you claim that Brexit is a "beautiful decision" that will vastly benefit the UK without providing an ounce, a milliounce, a microounce, a nanoounce of proof.

tl;dr
educate yourself before you try calling out my argument and also make sure you aren't being a hypocrite before falsely calling me out on bias. :-)
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