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Re: Why Lebron MIGHT ACTUALLY be... the best of all-time

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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 01:39 PM
Before you skip past all this and post "kid ur dumb, jordan was 10x better", hear me out.

I too am more of the conservative fan thinking that old players are usually better because the league was harder and whatnot. and statistically, yes 6 championships doesn't lie, nor does 5 MVP awards and a 14 time all-star.

But you have to remember, Lebron still has a lot of time left in his career...

At age 31, James is considerably ahead of Jordan when he was 31 years old. This is pretty much the prime of his career, just as it was Jordan's. Lets take a look at their comparison at 31.

Finals Appearances
Lebron: 7
Jordan: 3

Championships
Lebron: 3
Jordan: 3

NBA MVP Awards
Lebron: 4
Jordan: 3

NBA All-Star Games
Lebron: 12
Jordan: 8

And that's just statistics. Now, with that being said, I don't think it's fair to use rings and such as a comparison for many reasons. For one, if that were what made players better than others, the greatest champion of them all would be #1, Bill Russel. Obviously he isn't the best player due to him being in a much easier generation. That brings me to my other reason for not using rings as comparison. Generations change. There will always be a debate whether such and such conference was tougher, or who had the better team. I will give my opinion on that later, but for now I don't think rings can be the sole factor to judge them off of.

THE UNOBTAINABLE "JORDAN LEVEL"

So, the thing that I don't like about always saying "Nah he cant be as good as Jordan" is that we have said it so long, that now it's become some sort of god level that nobody can ever reach no matter how good they are. I think we need to look at it differently. Jordan was the greatest player of all time, no doubt, but records are made to be broken and Lebron James has certainly left no question that he is the best in his generation. I can't say for certain "LEBRON IS BETTER THAN JORDAN" because that would be going out on a limb at this point, but my question is... where do we draw the line? If lebron continued being dominant and made 11 or 12 NBA Finals in his career (dont laugh he is at 7 and hes got another 7 or 8 years in his career in a weak eastern conference), would he then be better than Jordan? Of course people would say no, that Jordan never lost a championship or whatever. But my question is what does this man have to do to be considered a threat to this unobtainable level that is Michael Jordan? So from here on out, keep in mind that I am looking at this like it's not unobtainable and it's just another record to be broken.


So my next argument would be the different eras that these guys played in. Look who Jordan had around him and who he beat in the Finals. Then you look who Lebron had around him and beat in the Finals (and lost to). For Jordan, you have one of the best SG in history in Scottie Pippen, then you have one of the best defenders later in his career in Rodman. Then add in the likes of Steve Kerr who was an insane shooter and other play makers (this is the 96 team btw), and you have probably the best overall team to ever play. They played in a pretty tough eastern conference (I would say its tougher than today's East, but not as cut throat as the current west). But then in the Finals, they played some pretty mediocre teams if you're thinking in terms of NBA Finals. They faced a legitimate team in the Lakers in the 90s but those guys were at the end of their careers. Their win against the Pistons in the ECF was a better victory than the Finals. Then other finals included the Blazers, Suns, Supersonics, and Jazz, which were all good teams but they aren't what you think of when you think of "NBA Champions".

So moving on to Lebron's Finals resume'. The man took a pretty much desolate team in the 2007 Cavaliers to a Finals almost by himself... He couldn't finish it out against one of the best coaches in history, Gregg Popovich. Still yet, an amazing season and his ECF performance ranked 4th best in playoffs history in just his 3rd season in the league. Fast forward to when he goes to Miami, and loses to Dallas. This is probably the worst team he's lost to in Finals history. They were pretty much "Dirk Dirk Dirk". Lebron dropped off big time from his regular season averages in the Finals. Then the next 2 seasons, he wins back to back championships against the Thunder and Spurs. Then going on to play in another finals against his long time rivals, coach Pop and the Spurs. The Spurs dominated the Heat as James was hurt Game 1. Then returning to Cleveland, he loses once again in the Finals to one of the best teams that I have seen play in the Warriors. and then finally, this year, delivers on his promise to bring a championship to Cleveland and beats the supposed best team in history to win his 3rd Finals and 3rd Finals MVP.

So looking at that, I would say that Jordan played in the tougher conference, but had it much easier in the Finals and had a lot better team surrounding him. James plays in the weaker conference for sure, but he faces real championship contenders in the Finals and has a worse supporting cast than Jordan did.


My final point would be that Lebron is the only player I know that could ever do what he is asked to do. He can basically take any team in the NBA today, East or West, and he would take them to the playoffs and turn them into a real threat within a single year. He can play any position on the floor, and he has the ability to do just about anything. His game is almost flawless. His outside game is above average for the modern NBA and his inside game would probably be the best of any non-big man in the NBA in my opinion. His transition and defensive aspects of his game are also one of the best skill sets in the league, because he can guard all types of players from Steph Curry to Draymond Green.

Jordan was a good finisher, for sure (i mean you have to be to be KNOWN for your dunks), but Lebron is a lot bigger than Jordan and still nearly as dominant on dunks and acrobatics. Lebron's defensive game would have to be better since you can ask him to guard any player on the floor successfully. I would say their outside game is almost equal, but if anyone has to take that category, I would give it to Jordan just because he had better ball handling skills and a slightly better shot imo, but outside shooting isn't Lebron's specialty. You look at transition and I would say it's about equal again. Jordan would be quicker, but could Jordan power through 2 or 3 defenders in a 2v1 or 3v1 transition and finish at the rim? Not as well as Lebron could considering his size.

In conclusion, I don't know if we can say Lebron is as good or better than Jordan YET. But at this rate, there has to be a point where it becomes undeniable. The man has made 6 straight Finals and shows no sign of slowing down, as he just played his best Finals ever and beat what everyone thought was an unbeatable team earlier this season.

If Lebron continues at this rate, I think he will be the undeniable best player in history by the end of his career. It will always be a debate, but I no longer can easily say "Nobody is as good as Jordan was. He was just so much more dominant than anyone else ever".

DISCLAIMER: I am not a Cleveland fan (I was pulling for them in the Finals but I'm not a "fan") and Lebron isn't my favorite player, so if you're going to accuse me of riding him, you might as well not. My favorite player would be CP3 and my team is the LA Clippers sooo... When I start saying CP3 is the best ever, yall can just unload on me lol


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Ben_Bishop is not online. Ben_Bishop
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 7033
20 Jun 2016 01:40 PM
tl;dr


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MarioKartAddict is not online. MarioKartAddict
Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 42774
20 Jun 2016 01:41 PM
this post is too long for a roblox forum people dont have that long of an attention span


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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 01:42 PM
dont read it if you dont want to. but if youre not gonna read it, then dont comment?...

yall some trolls fr


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DarkImperiator is not online. DarkImperiator
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 57699
20 Jun 2016 01:44 PM
I don't care what you say

Jordan is the best of all time

You do realize he retired like 3 times right?
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Ben_Bishop is not online. Ben_Bishop
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 7033
20 Jun 2016 01:45 PM
we can do whatever the hell we want newbag


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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 01:46 PM
wtf is a newbag?

and you just contradict yourself if ur gonna spend 5 minutes trolling my comments but say the post is too long to read.

can you not read? is that why?? lmao


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Ben_Bishop is not online. Ben_Bishop
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 7033
20 Jun 2016 01:47 PM
"5 minutes"

kek


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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 01:47 PM
i was hoping someone actually smart would come here and either give me reasons why Jordan > Lebron or support my reasoning. If youre not doing either of those, then just dont waste your time replying.


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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 01:48 PM
06-20-2016 11:40 AM

06-20-2016 11:47 AM


7 minutes.

MY BAD


rofl get outta here kid


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jimbobucky is not online. jimbobucky
Top 100 Poster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 71233
20 Jun 2016 01:48 PM
Too long for my attention span at the moment, but good job on the relevant stats you brought up. Lebron truly has the potential to surpass Jordan by the end of his career
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DarkImperiator is not online. DarkImperiator
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 57699
20 Jun 2016 01:49 PM
Jordan is a scoring machine and went 6-0 in the finals

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Ben_Bishop is not online. Ben_Bishop
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 7033
20 Jun 2016 01:49 PM
because i have been typing for seven minute ur right

out->[]


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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 01:50 PM
@Jimbo TY for being the first real comment here. Whoever is saying Jordan is better I guess is kinda real too, but can u explain pls? like with stats or reasoning


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TinyBerry3 is not online. TinyBerry3
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 30001
20 Jun 2016 01:51 PM
With all due respect Jordan has 6 rings and 6 finals MVP. By the time LBJ could get there he's retired.
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TheWdonald61 is not online. TheWdonald61
Joined: 19 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 14397
20 Jun 2016 01:52 PM
The things Lebron has accomplished is unbelievable, he has my respect.
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deathrange07 is not online. deathrange07
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Total Posts: 62674
20 Jun 2016 01:54 PM
kobe, he is bringing some quality sports discussion to the SF (unlike you and your 💩💩💩💩posts) so how about you go be mr. special somewhere else.

just ignore him from now on OP

RIP Koolboy123, Oct. 1, 1992-Apr. 27, 2016 ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ
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NotHULKo is not online. NotHULKo
Joined: 01 Jan 2016
Total Posts: 3165
20 Jun 2016 01:56 PM
1) Yes, just because you have the most rings in NBA History doesn't mean your the greatest of all time, as you can see with Bill Russel. He was in an easier league. But Jordan wasn't, the defense at the time was much better than both Russel's era and Lebron's.

2) Also, I'd like to point out that MJ retired in the middle of his career. He could have won 8 in a row from what I know. Plus, Lebron entered the league at age 19, which gave him a headstart.
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TinyBerry3 is not online. TinyBerry3
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 30001
20 Jun 2016 01:57 PM
Very true. Lebron came straight out of highschool. Jordan went to college.
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ebenton95 is not online. ebenton95
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Total Posts: 9671
20 Jun 2016 02:01 PM
kid ur dumb, jordan was 10x better
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Carolinas_Finest is not online. Carolinas_Finest
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 135
20 Jun 2016 02:02 PM
We talking NBA careers. College and when they entered is irrelevant imo. Plus Jordan didn't retire in the middle of his career what are you talking about? He left for a few seasons and came back and retired @ 40.

Again, this is about NBA careers, so if he retired and left for seasons and he didnt enter as early, thats kinda irrelevant to who had the better career


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Southernize is not online. Southernize
Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Total Posts: 1294
20 Jun 2016 02:05 PM
"We talking NBA careers. College and when they entered is irrelevant imo. Plus Jordan didn't retire in the middle of his career what are you talking about? He left for a few seasons and came back and retired @ 40.

Again, this is about NBA careers, so if he retired and left for seasons and he didnt enter as early, thats kinda irrelevant to who had the better career"

I've heard hundreds of people talk about the college/no college/baseball debate and this is the first time I actually agree with someone. That's actually a very good and interesting point.
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Romoism is not online. Romoism
Joined: 13 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 43090
20 Jun 2016 02:06 PM
LeBron is on pace to overtake Jordan, but right now I still give the nod to Jordan, he played in a harder era whereas LeBron has had a pretty easy ride to the Finals.

Again, LeBron is on track to have more hardware than Jordan, but I think Jordan got it done in a harder era.
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Ben_Bishop is not online. Ben_Bishop
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 7033
20 Jun 2016 02:08 PM
ok you got me i was trolling

but to be serious in this conversation, both are great and should not be compared until years later. just enjoy the show.


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jimbobucky is not online. jimbobucky
Top 100 Poster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 71233
20 Jun 2016 02:47 PM
"kobe, he is bringing some quality sports discussion to the SF (unlike you and your 💩💩💩💩posts) so how about you go be mr. special somewhere else."

thank god someone finally called this out lol
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