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Re: Thorough Analysis of Why Clans Suck

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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 05:30 PM
The main proof this thread will rely on is the following thread, just the original post, but feel free to read the argument if you're bored, or just interested:
http://forum.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=184167469

So, let's get started...
I think we can all agree that clans today suck in comparison to clans 2-3 years ago, even when eliminating factors such as nostalgia, people growing up and away from a game, etc. It used to be a popular belief that RCL contributed to the drop in the clans' decency, not skill-level-wise, but in terms of their ability to organize, etc. It was a common opinion that RCL gave birth to or fueled the thought that winning was the only way to show you're good. It may have been true, to an extent, but I doubt it's the only reason.

The reason that I believe clans have declined to the point they're at today is quite simple; power clans, specifically VAK, TGI and V O I D are to blame. Already the fact that they're called power clans is kind of red flag-ish already, it promotes them as the indisputably best. They may have been, that's not what I'm trying to argue against, what I'm trying to say is, that a lot of pure bs committed by all of these clans may have been allowed just because of their status, and because it was publicly accepted that, well, these clans may just have been better, so there couldn't have been anything fishy about any committed actions.

But what do all of the 3 clans have in common, besides being power clans, and being considered perhaps the 3 best individual clans in ROBLOX history (if only prime is considered, at least)? Well, for one they do, or did all have at least one base that was commonly thought of as 'ridiculously unfair': for VAK Kaznan and arguably the updated version of SMOI during the TGI vs. VAK "war", for TGI New Alexandria and arguably SHII and for V O I D, most commonly referenced is Labyrinths of Despair. The degree of these clan bases' is not what I'd like to argue or compare, it's just the fact that, although they may have still been a level above all other clans in each of their respective primes, they may have been vital, or instrumental to their success, and why each of them are idolized the way they are today.

But the idolization is exactly what I think is what has brought clans this far down the drain...the fact that, especially VAK, has become this template of a 'perfect' clan, when it is possibly very far from it, is what has caused this progressive downfall. The fact that foul play is accepted because it has been used by VAK, TGI, V O I D, and now also many other clans, even non-power clans is quite disturbing, and I doubt clans will rise back to popularity, unless something drastically changes.

What has to change? No clue, maybe VAK, V O I D, or another clan should step forward to set an example, a clan influential enough. Maybe clans just have to make a consensus for the betterment of clans, and exclude all clans that condone such behavior, although such an organization would be highly unlikely.

You may argue against my case, but the ignorance on display in the thread given as an example of such behavior is probably only supporting my case, Vaktovians' replies and my own even further.

Disclaimer: Merely a theory, not only the 3 mentioned clans are to blame for all of this, those responsible for such idolization are as much as well, as their attitude has also majorly contributed to things as they are today.

Just my 2 cents.


Sancu the Handsome
This is my siggy; nailed it
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WannaBet is not online. WannaBet
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 23607
28 Feb 2016 05:43 PM
I wouldn't blame VAK for much, although I do agree that the obsession people have with evaluating clans solely based on their military performance is preventing mass recruitment and activity, since characteristics possessed by superclans are no longer favourable despite being very needed.
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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 05:47 PM
"Disclaimer: Merely a theory, not only the 3 mentioned clans are to blame for all of this, those responsible for such idolization are as much as well, as their attitude has also majorly contributed to things as they are today."

Basically states that power clans are not entirely to blame. But VAK does play a huge part in it, WannaBet, a greater one than you probably believe. But the rest of clans adopting similar thoughts because of sheer idolization is what pushed the stone over the hill, and it's been rolling ever since, further and further into decline.
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WannaBet is not online. WannaBet
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 23607
28 Feb 2016 05:53 PM
VAK's success as a clan inspires others to follow its model, but it doesn't proactively shove its structure down people's throats. Nor does it rely on the forums, on marketing or on a recycled community of individuals from other forum-clans. On top of that, although VAK plays a harmful role in regards to the way wars are conducted, it also does a lot of good by bringing new people in, making war clans more relevant to the rest of the community and proving that roleplay does work.
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TheShadowMessage is not online. TheShadowMessage
Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 10379
28 Feb 2016 05:56 PM
Foul play has persisted since the inception of clans. For example, uniform raiding was once considered socially acceptable before the community banished it. Another example is the abuses of glitches, such as wall shooting.

In the past, it seems that improvements in technology have been the supreme method for eliminating foul play. Bullets were replaced by raycast, and most exploits can be prevented with FilteringEnabled.
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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 05:58 PM
"VAK's success as a clan inspires others to follow its model, but it doesn't proactively shove its structure down people's throats."
Basically why the idolizing of VAK as a result of condoning of winning also being pointed our as a major flaw that has lead to this decline.

"Nor does it rely on the forums, on marketing or on a recycled community of individuals from other forum-clans."
Never stated.

"On top of that, although VAK plays a harmful role in regards to the way wars are conducted, it also does a lot of good by bringing new people in, making war clans more relevant to the rest of the community and proving that roleplay does work."
VAK does play a harmful role in the way wars are conducted, but I honestly don't see how exactly they're bringing in new members.
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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 06:00 PM
But TheShadowMessage, uniform raiding isn't exactly constructing your base so that it becomes a firing range. In fact, I don't see how it would be a problem if you don't have hide name at your base.
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DystraTala is not online. DystraTala
Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 24204
28 Feb 2016 06:01 PM
Why would you have a uniform if you're going to raid in the uniform of another clan?


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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 06:03 PM
If you rely on raiding in another clan's uniform, chances are you're just not very good either way, and you probably shouldn't be a problem to take out. It's very simple, they shoot at you, you shoot at them.

Besides, uniform raiding has its disadvantages, it also confuses the raiding force.
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L1611 is not online. L1611
Joined: 14 May 2009
Total Posts: 9356
28 Feb 2016 06:14 PM
aka kids participating in unmoderated competition
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R33F is not online. R33F
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 745
28 Feb 2016 06:19 PM
I think the real trigger of the downfall of clans was the ubiquitous attempt to rationalize superiority within Roblox. (A game made for preteens, teenagers, and young adults.)

Rationalization attempts include:
War Blatent Narcissism
RCL etc.

I'm not saying that a single one of those things caused a decline, however, I believe that the narcissism that was most likely deemed 'patriotic' towards one's clan, is slightly out of hand and our obsession towards proving that our clan is 'better' than another is an obvious issue.




I'm running on 2 hours of sleep, so don't judge me on my grammatical errors.



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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 06:20 PM
@L1611,

more or less, yeah
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R33F is not online. R33F
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 745
28 Feb 2016 06:22 PM
btw, i love your outfit op


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Yeller7 is not online. Yeller7
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 1030
28 Feb 2016 06:23 PM
Clans get ruined when wars only lead to both sides thinking they won and the other is a lying, cheating bad clan.

Even VAK will play some dirty moves to make sure they don't ever lose their undefeated streak, but in the end, if all clans could play a clean game and go for win or lose, it would be more like mlg e-sports, where you don't always win every game against your opponents, but your win ratio is enough to make you hold the #1 spot.

Clans should be able to have shorter wars with each other consistantly, sometimes winning against an enemy, sometimes losing, looking at how they can improve from losing, do so, and repeat.

Trying to forcibly not lose a war every time doesn't make for a fun clan fight. It makes for stress in doing everything you possibly can to not lose a single war, else your clan may even die because of it.
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Corlanius is not online. Corlanius
Joined: 08 Jun 2015
Total Posts: 4953
28 Feb 2016 06:36 PM
I tried to change wars clans with a clan devoted against the corruption of clans specifically to your theory... I chose VAK as a visualization of rebirth. It was... The Vaktovian Redemption. To as Donald Vaktus would say, make Vaktovia great again.

Failed because of too much criticism. If I had more support it might have succeeded.

Too many people are ignorant of how clans are really being ruined.



My clan Saturnity is new, unique, original, and anti-critical friendly. It has ideas and assets that make it fun and fair. ROBLOX is fun, but it's just a came.

You don't have to act like Ado-lf Hit-ler to make a successful clan (cough cough Vaktus)


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ezaiahs is not online. ezaiahs
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Total Posts: 18613
28 Feb 2016 06:39 PM


when you stop caring about win or loss you can enjoy a game as it was meant to be enjoyed


if something is fun you do it

if something is not fun you don't

if you do something you may regret

cease


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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Feb 2016 06:39 PM
Contrary to popular belief, Vaktus is a pretty nice, down to earth guy, only judging from the few times he's been on here. Only negative thing I've seen from him was him involving himself in the UAF vs. VAK war, when he knew very little about the conflict.
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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
26 Apr 2016 03:39 PM
so vak and foa think they're cool, wanna bump this to prove the point that they're bad and sad
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VermeiI is not online. VermeiI
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Total Posts: 933
26 Apr 2016 03:45 PM
I like your point.


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goldsub is not online. goldsub
Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Total Posts: 6203
26 Apr 2016 03:53 PM
what a handsome theory
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TheHarlequinsDemise is not online. TheHarlequinsDemise
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 37109
26 Apr 2016 04:35 PM
1) you do know that vaktus had a place ready for activation when vak lost a war right? he is/was prepared to lose and he openly admitted at multiple stages. if you actually remember, it was ct's "die before losing approach" towards vak that started what we have today. vak really play no part in this whatsoever. vaktus/vak get a lot of crap for this when they really shouldn't. want a particular clan/person to blame? rat/ct are your guys for this.

2) rcl is a bigger factor then what you give it credit for, especially with the tryhard culture it cultivated cough*ben*cough along with the utterly stupid and moronic guns/swords divide that it caused, effectively killing off a whole branch of clans and sending them completely underground. and before anyone says "but harl swords suk!", most newer players prefer swords, so wouldn't it make more sense to try and cater to them?
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5ancu is not online. 5ancu
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Total Posts: 6771
28 Apr 2016 03:08 PM
weird vak continues to condone base shut downs and other sorts of dirty tactics in order to obtain victory.

hmm...

think that goes against everything you said, and is proof that you're in the wrong, tbh.
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