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Re: Undeniable logical deduction of God's existence

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Tenal is not online. Tenal
Joined: 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 18684
17 Feb 2016 11:31 PM
1. The laws of logic exist.

a. Law of identity - something is what it is and is not what it is not.
b. Law of non-contradiction - something cannot be what it is not.
c. Law of excluded middle - there is no third option to a true/false statement

2. The laws of logic are not dependent on time, space, matter, or human minds.

a. Not dependent on time - the laws of logic won't be anymore or less valid five minutes from now.
b. Not dependent on space - the laws of logic aren't truer here than it is a billion light years away from earth.
c. Not dependent on matter - the laws of logic are axiomatic and abstract concepts.
d. Not dependent on human minds - the laws of logic are definitive and not disagreeable. Human minds contradict and disagree on everything, except the fundamental laws of logic.

3. Therefore, the laws of logic are transcendent.
4. Therefore, the laws of logic are dependent on something transcendent.
5. Therefore, the laws of logic are dependent on a transcendent mind.
6. The transcendent mind is God.


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SilverRavine is not online. SilverRavine
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Total Posts: 60
17 Feb 2016 11:33 PM
wtf this makes sense...
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lionbaita is not online. lionbaita
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 23091
17 Feb 2016 11:34 PM
Idk bout a transcendent mind

But my mind hurts now
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Tenal is not online. Tenal
Joined: 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 18684
17 Feb 2016 11:38 PM
Atheists, disprove this if you can.


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isseman6 is not online. isseman6
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 3224
17 Feb 2016 11:41 PM
If god exists, you are damned.
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Tenal is not online. Tenal
Joined: 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 18684
17 Feb 2016 11:42 PM
not possible because my utmost trust lies in the hands of Jesus Christ


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FriendlyBiscuit is not online. FriendlyBiscuit
Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 8991
17 Feb 2016 11:42 PM
you should go date that billiondollarsmile girl.

she likes god and i heard she's real freaky with religious boys. same for her mom.

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SilverRavine is not online. SilverRavine
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Total Posts: 60
17 Feb 2016 11:42 PM
The part about the transcendent mind being God is stupid because it could be a lot of other things as well. Everything up the the last line though sounds pretty legit...
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Tenal is not online. Tenal
Joined: 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 18684
17 Feb 2016 11:47 PM
@silver
Until which part is it not stupid to believe up to?
By my conclusion of drawing the line between "transcendent mind" and "God", I mean that the giver of logic must be something, somethings, someone, or someones who or that are transcendent. If I were to draw the line between this logical deduction to the trinitarian God as revealed in the Bible, that'd be a stretch, but this logical deduction is a part of Christian presuppositional apologetics that helps us alter our presuppositions in order to have capability to believe further in what the Bible reveals to us in.


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isseman6 is not online. isseman6
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 3224
17 Feb 2016 11:51 PM
Tenal stop pretending to be smart.

Your half baked thoughts don't even make sense, you have zero evidence that this "mind" is anything like a "god" most humans know of, even then why do you make assumption based on your pre understood idea of a god.

This argument is as strong as, I like to play checkers, there are players so the players must of created the universe..
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Trizus is not online. Trizus
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 165
17 Feb 2016 11:52 PM
Just noticed this but Tenal is a bit more religious than the last time I talked to him in a Skype call back in uh... '14?
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lionbaita is not online. lionbaita
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 23091
17 Feb 2016 11:53 PM
I'd try disproving this
If i didn't agree with it
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Tenal is not online. Tenal
Joined: 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 18684
17 Feb 2016 11:54 PM
isseman, I'd very much appreciate it if you explained to me why my "half baked thoughts" don't make sense. This is not something I thought up of while under the influence but an actual Christian presuppositional argument with very weak objections.


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isseman6 is not online. isseman6
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 3224
17 Feb 2016 11:59 PM
1. You are attempting to state the laws of logic when you don't know the topic and show how hard you are trying to be "smart". For example ." Law of excluded middle - there is no third option to a true/false statement" is proof you know little but just google things lol.


There are third options that are niether true or false, ever heard of truth value? Didn't think so.

2. You are making the assumption that something transedent is going to be a mind? You have no basis for this at all and im pretty sure you made that up even when I agree with your "maxims" lol


gtfo you know little
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SilverRavine is not online. SilverRavine
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Total Posts: 60
18 Feb 2016 12:02 AM
The thing is this "transcendent mind" could be an alien that creates matter by thinking it into existance, but not God. Don't get me wrong I actually agree with everything else, the logic makes sense and this is coming from an Atheist.
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Inductive is not online. Inductive
Joined: 28 May 2012
Total Posts: 6480
18 Feb 2016 12:02 AM
There is no third option to a true false statement:
"This statement is false"
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Tenal is not online. Tenal
Joined: 15 May 2011
Total Posts: 18684
18 Feb 2016 12:03 AM
Truth-value in classical logic only has two values - true and false. The law of excluded middle is a fundamental law of logic. It's not a difficult concept; it's a bit odd you automatically assume I'm googling all of this information as if it's beyond the scope of average comprehension to use the transcendental argument.

From transcendent to transcendent mind, what other option is there?


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Z007 is not online. Z007
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Total Posts: 11729
18 Feb 2016 12:05 AM
@at the guy that said something about the billion dollar smile girl

you mean the one at some sports stadium? she got married

saw a post on lmgur about it earlier

- your friendly neighborhood medical nerd
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SilverRavine is not online. SilverRavine
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Total Posts: 60
18 Feb 2016 12:05 AM
I feel you're ignoring me Tenal, who's to say this "Transcendent Mind" is something other than the God you are led to believe.
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YoshiFace is not online. YoshiFace
Joined: 23 May 2010
Total Posts: 5228
18 Feb 2016 12:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfRtkCGE40A&feature=youtu.be&t=1m36s
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isseman6 is not online. isseman6
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 3224
18 Feb 2016 12:07 AM
The options are irrelevant, you have no basis and are just spitting random things.

And if you knew anything truth value, you would know there are values in between true and false, but okay....


Your argument is weak, its not even one, its just as credible as someone claiming they saw god. Why are you making the assumption it would be transcedent, even if it was, how would you know its like a "mind" if it is beyond our scope


You contradicted yourself already, I dont know who you are trying to impress but damn you are trying
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Falsewarrior000 is not online. Falsewarrior000
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Total Posts: 14507
18 Feb 2016 12:15 AM
Your proof has a few problems. First off, the "laws of logic" are themselves unproven axioms upon which logic is based, their "existence" being dependent on our acceptance of the axioms.

You move on to claim that the laws of logic are independent of time, space, matter, or the human mind. I answer that d) makes an unwarranted claim about logic, namely that the laws of logic are absolutely independent of the individual. The "laws" are merely axioms we've accepted that we might order our thoughts, conversations, and "world".

The final part of your argument tries to, from the claim that the laws of logic are "transcendent", argue that the axioms of logic are themselves dependent on the transcendent mind "God". Why must the "laws of logic" be dependent on anything more than mathematics and the natural law? Why invoke a transcendent being when what we see may be explained otherwise?

Please feel free to respond to my criticisms and justify each and every one of your proposals.

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billiondollarsmile98 is not online. billiondollarsmile98
Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 889
18 Feb 2016 12:16 AM
GG ATHEISTS!!!! TY FOR PROVING GOD EXISTS 100%!!! THE POWER OF GOD TRUMPS ALL!


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isseman6 is not online. isseman6
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Total Posts: 3224
18 Feb 2016 12:17 AM
Wow actually intelligent people reply to a wannabe with his half baked thoughts

Thanks, false. If you agreed with his "logic" you would see the contradictions even then lol

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Jyeik is not online. Jyeik
Joined: 13 May 2009
Total Posts: 15211
18 Feb 2016 12:18 AM
I'm pretty sure it's the flying spaghetti monster.
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