romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:20 PM |
And furthermore lets stop forcing the arena shooter community onto clans and pretending it's healthy for it. Because in fact, it's part of the problem. All of these "Must have 10v10 for official raid!"(Which applies to VAK's most recent 'must have 14v14 for official raid' at SMO) Rules are completely bs. Clans and more specifically clan wars are not, never were, and never should be designed for arena warfare. The more active clan in any war will and most certainly should have advantages over raids and wars.
It was this mentality that led to the greatness that was 2010-2012 clans community-Everyone trying to make their clans as active as humanly possible so that they could overwhelm their opponents. Which in turn, combined with a stronger focus on small clans and allowing allies in wars helped foster much larger, more lively clans community. Because as it stands now, all anyone needs for a VAK war is a clan of 14 active and coordinated members, with maybe 5 spares on standbye. No need to foster activity beyond that, which means we may as well say farewell to those epic 100 man, multi server raids that was so epic about old clans. |
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Caboooose
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| Joined: 16 May 2012 |
| Total Posts: 8091 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:28 PM |
Agreed, and when clans see that the raid is unofficial due to their horrible rules they will end the server
They care about winning more than activity and having fun |
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Paracosm
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| Joined: 25 May 2012 |
| Total Posts: 29395 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:29 PM |
"If you can't muster up enough members to defend your base, then you should lose. Keep your members patrolling."
-Para
vicky or go icky |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:29 PM |
| Clans should be allowed to run as they want. If they have certain stipulations at their bases that you don't agree with, then don't raid there. |
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:32 PM |
^ See that's the problem though. When a large clan like VAK starts instituting things like this in their forts it becomes standardized and wide spread within the clans community.
And while I agree with you that forts should, for the most part be unregulated, there should be a FEW stipulations here and there that are generally frowned upon for the sake of the community. Otherwise one could argue that spawning inside their forts is 'within their rights' and for people to 'just not raid there' This stipulation for example does nothing but kill ANY need to foster real activity within your clan. |
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:33 PM |
| @Para: Agree with you 100% there. |
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Paracosm
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| Joined: 25 May 2012 |
| Total Posts: 29395 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:34 PM |
Rom is right.
Every clan should follow the simple rules that are pretty self-explanatory.
No exploiting No admin abusing
etcetc.
Any rules like "must be 10v10" or "no spawnkilling" and stuff like that are dumb.
vicky or go icky |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:36 PM |
Couldn't have said it any better
Tracking, gr8 thread
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Rivervale
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| Joined: 30 Apr 2015 |
| Total Posts: 146 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:37 PM |
| It doesn't bother me, its only a game. But I do agree, clans need to accept defeats and not be so prideful, it ruins the fun. |
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:43 PM |
there are multiple clans that prioritize activity, just because VAK or anyone else wants to have a highly skill dependent base doesn't change that. i for one enjoy higher skilled bases/clans but im not going to write 2 paragraphs to justify that :DDDDDDDDD
not to mention any base can have multiple servers, VAK-TSG comes to mind |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:44 PM |
| This arena shooter mentality is taking away a big part of clan warfare that is somewhat quite unique to ROBLOX. It's very good to see supporters of this. Hopefully the big guys will see this and see the error of their ways. |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:48 PM |
| @Unt In a way it very much change them. There's a large amount of group's that follow VAK's example due to their history of successful conquest. |
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:49 PM |
"there are multiple clans that prioritize activity, just because VAK or anyone else wants to have a highly skill dependent base doesn't change that. i for one enjoy higher skilled bases/clans but im not going to write 2 paragraphs to justify that :DDDDDDDDD"
That's my point though. Clans like VAK have influence. And this standardized across all clans is only going to help kill clans off quicker. And as much as you enjoy it that's not what clans is supposed to be and rules like this have only been working to hurt clans. If you like super equal competitive shooters, go play CS GO, or COD, or even Halo. Otherwise, standardizing equal warfare will give people no incentive to make their clans super active.
"not to mention any base can have multiple servers, VAK-TSG comes to mind"
Any base can, but why even bother when all you will ever need is 14 guys to win a raid? If you go the minimum and know you can win in a single server with you at the helm why bother with more than one? In fact it puts more active clans at a disadvantage as all their numbers won't mean anything against less active clans. |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:54 PM |
VAK is the only clan i know that has an even numbers base, i'm not really sure what point you're trying to get across
do you just dislike clans that prioritize skill |
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laing302
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| Joined: 24 Feb 2010 |
| Total Posts: 355 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:55 PM |
So you finally made your argument cause VAK has a raider limit in their base?
Rofl, bias much.
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| 23 Feb 2016 02:56 PM |
| How does it in any way prioritize skill? If SMO did in fact prioritize skill, there would be no wall, just a flag in the middle with both teams going at it. It's not prioritizing skill, it's so VAK and other clans like them can cover their asses. |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:00 PM |
If we're going to use SMO as an example, a highly coordinated, flexible, and skilled raider team could give VAK a run for their money. I have no problem with these even-numbered bases as they provide a suitable challenge to those willing to take it. These type of bases stress teamwork, coordination, and skill in both teams. SMO is a perfectly reasonable base for a 14v14, the defenses work against the raiders as much as they do the defenders if they reverse roles.
While I do enjoy having a number advantage as a raider, I don't have any problems with even-numbered raids if the base is reasonable. |
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iKeno
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| Joined: 14 Jan 2008 |
| Total Posts: 27490 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:01 PM |
"no spawn killing" is a pretty decent rule what are you talking about rofl.
no exploiting or admin abusing is an obvious one though.
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:01 PM |
Dislike clans that use skill? No, in fact, having a skilled raiding team is another huge thing clans should strive for, it's a great advantage to have to tack onto having good activity.
It's merely that forcing 14v14 clan warfare is only going to hurt the clans community. And while VAK is the only one doing it right now that last thing the community needs is for there to be a whole bunch of clans implementing this over VAK. It would lead to a bunch of clans only prioritizing the minimum amount of activity needed for the clan of their choice over trying to get as many members active and involved as possible.
Being skilled is great and good for your clan. Being as active as possible is even better, and good for the entire community. |
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:03 PM |
"If we're going to use SMO as an example, a highly coordinated, flexible, and skilled raider team could give VAK a run for their money. I have no problem with these even-numbered bases as they provide a suitable challenge to those willing to take it. These type of bases stress teamwork, coordination, and skill in both teams. SMO is a perfectly reasonable base for a 14v14, the defenses work against the raiders as much as they do the defenders if they reverse roles."
Being outnumbered further stresses strategy and teamwork. It requires the less active clan to spread their defending or raiding team in a better matter to bring a win. I have more respect for a skilled clan that can win 9v14 for example than a skilled clan that can win 10v10. |
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Paracosm
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| Joined: 25 May 2012 |
| Total Posts: 29395 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:06 PM |
No spawn killing is a rule to mask that your members aren't good enough to even pass their own area.
If you're gettin spawn killed, then you've probably lost and should leave the game. |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:06 PM |
| I'd rather have a challenge raiding then an easy cakewalk. I apologize if that's coming off as arrogant. |
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romuluz
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| Joined: 12 Apr 2010 |
| Total Posts: 18124 |
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| 23 Feb 2016 03:07 PM |
I have to say, I'm with Ikeno when it comes to spawn killing.
I've raided bases in the past where the defending team builds the base in such a way where they can pot shot the defenders right out of the spawn and use that as justification. If there weren't clans like those I'd agree. |
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