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Re: what is the point of socialism anyway

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traff509 is not online. traff509
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 1744
11 Feb 2016 12:25 PM
wouldnt it just make everyone poorer than they already are


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BeauNavire is not online. BeauNavire
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 4169
11 Feb 2016 12:27 PM
everyone is supposed to get LIVING wages, not completely equal wages
i don't think you understand socialism at all


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Aetricity is not online. Aetricity
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 51079
11 Feb 2016 12:28 PM
I agree with OP, and it ultimately makes everyone poor, not middle class.

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Muunswirl is not online. Muunswirl
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 20702
11 Feb 2016 12:28 PM
only centrism works tbh

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Creepcruncher is not online. Creepcruncher
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3396
11 Feb 2016 12:29 PM
ok basically it's so poor people can make no effort

OR if you have a vision of utopian society it looks kewl i guess


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Aetricity is not online. Aetricity
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 51079
11 Feb 2016 12:29 PM
In essense, it sounds like a wonderful idea, but if you look at history and you see how it usually lead into communism, or just made a country much more poorer, it is anything but a wonderful idea.

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OTUltros is not online. OTUltros
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 367
11 Feb 2016 12:29 PM
"everyone is supposed to get LIVING wages"

It's a welfare system that ensures people have enough to eat, but also makes it so it's difficult for them to become wealthy because the government regulates the market to ensure corporations don't become too rich.
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BeauNavire is not online. BeauNavire
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 4169
11 Feb 2016 12:29 PM
socialism only fails and results in poor police states when the world's plutocrats and capitalists (such as the united states of refusing to let anyone else build something of worth) put pressure on them and force them into pointless arms races and wars


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DanBrowned is not online. DanBrowned
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Total Posts: 17758
11 Feb 2016 12:30 PM
if the government is bad at socialism it can lead to an economical disaster btw

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BeauNavire is not online. BeauNavire
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 4169
11 Feb 2016 12:31 PM
yugoslavia were the only socialist nation to not be directly attacked by capitalist world powers and they suffered from absolutely zero of the problems that the USSR, cambodia, vietnam, china, the DPRK, east germany, etc faced


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OTUltros is not online. OTUltros
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 367
11 Feb 2016 12:31 PM
"force them into pointless arms races and wars"

The problem is, warfare is a necessary element of human nature to ensure the survival of a certain culture. It's when there's too much warfare that it becomes a problem.
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Aetricity is not online. Aetricity
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 51079
11 Feb 2016 12:32 PM
This is why I do not want Sanders or Clinton for president, since I believe they are both democratic socialists. (really there is no difference between a "democratic" socialist and a real one, the "democratic" refers purely to the form of government being used, not the economical type; it is not a specific branch)

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Creepcruncher is not online. Creepcruncher
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3396
11 Feb 2016 12:32 PM
>yugoslavia

>serbia happens


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DanBrowned is not online. DanBrowned
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Total Posts: 17758
11 Feb 2016 12:33 PM
A combination of the competitive market and socialism seems to work quite well.

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OTUltros is not online. OTUltros
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 367
11 Feb 2016 12:34 PM
Clinton is not a socialist because she's using the judicial system to benefit herself instead of benefiting the people
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Aetricity is not online. Aetricity
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 51079
11 Feb 2016 12:34 PM
I guess if you left a very few socialist elements to capitalism it could actually improve the economy, but that is NOT what democratic socialism does.

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Aetricity is not online. Aetricity
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 51079
11 Feb 2016 12:35 PM
"Clinton is not a socialist because she's using the judicial system to benefit herself instead of benefiting the people"

Okay thanks for the correction, but I still really do not want her for president.

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OTUltros is not online. OTUltros
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 367
11 Feb 2016 12:37 PM
"but I still really do not want her for president."

I don't think anyone wants her as president. She only supports herself in order to gain more power.
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Creepcruncher is not online. Creepcruncher
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3396
11 Feb 2016 12:38 PM
I agree with Dan.

Britain is a good example- Free, competitive markets, but with taxes, benefits and free healthcare.


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BeauNavire is not online. BeauNavire
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 4169
11 Feb 2016 12:39 PM
also you're all just falling for western anti-communist propaganda honestly, there's multiple socialist states from history that have done very well (vietnam, cuba, USSR under lenin, yugoslavia)


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Creepcruncher is not online. Creepcruncher
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3396
11 Feb 2016 12:40 PM
Vietnam is a poor country full of peasant farmers.
Cuba is.. developing, but still not very rich.
Russia has lots of VERY, VERY poor people. Ex-Communist or Socialist countries tend to have bad economies.
Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore, does it? Serbia appeared there, and Serbia is bad, okay?


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OTUltros is not online. OTUltros
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 367
11 Feb 2016 12:41 PM
"also you're all just falling for western anti-communist propaganda honestly,"

A lot of people still have the Red Scare mindset from the 50s because we live in a post-Cold War society.
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BeauNavire is not online. BeauNavire
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 4169
11 Feb 2016 12:41 PM
capitalism by nature is meant to benefit only the upper class
it's an oppressive system
it says a lot that adam smith, inventor of capitalism, was also a major social darwinist


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DanBrowned is not online. DanBrowned
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
Total Posts: 17758
11 Feb 2016 12:41 PM
@creep
Even the US is a decent example to some degree, although it leans more towards the competitive markets side. Anti-monopoly laws help with that.

And are peeps getting communism and socialism confused here?

DanBrowned, the sultan and morally positive lord of Off Topic. | *memes eternally*
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Creepcruncher is not online. Creepcruncher
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3396
11 Feb 2016 12:42 PM
Beau.

Look.

If I work hard at school, which I am, and I do better than the kids who don't care and get nowhere, I deserve better living than they do.

They, however, deserve basic rights such as healthcare, cheap water and electricity, and the ability to child dental care.

The Government fully supports childrens' education, it's more about giving a damn and it paying off in later life.


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