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Re: is this too much criticism

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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 05:34 PM
mother talking about why she believes everyone in the world has a choice to do something at any time

like this includes tsunami coming your way and you can't outrun it

"you have a choice here."

anyway i just told her to open her perspective a bit to the idea that not everyone has a choice at every moment and some people just aren't given opportunities like that as other people are

as well as note her perspective is narrow

she decides to yell at me and tell me i'm judging her too much and walks off

we haven't said anything yet so i'm just wondering if this was too much criticism

;)
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lvzzy is not online. lvzzy
Joined: 13 Feb 2013
Total Posts: 1314
08 Dec 2015 05:35 PM
eh, not really

just don't talk to her


she'll never stop crying
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Plexahedron is not online. Plexahedron
Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 9609
08 Dec 2015 05:36 PM
What choice was she talking about in the first place?


"In sweet music is such art" - King Henry VIII
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 05:37 PM
"What choice was she talking about in the first place?"

basically the choice to make something better

;)
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Plexahedron is not online. Plexahedron
Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 9609
08 Dec 2015 05:43 PM
Hm.
Well you do have a valid point.
But I'm guessing whatever she was arguing with you about did have some type of reasonable choice behind it.
Because I'm guessing you don't have a tsunami or anything about to crash down on you haha.


"In sweet music is such art" - King Henry VIII
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 05:46 PM
"Hm.
Well you do have a valid point.
But I'm guessing whatever she was arguing with you about did have some type of reasonable choice behind it.
Because I'm guessing you don't have a tsunami or anything about to crash down on you haha."

she was just trying to argue with me how people who fall to payday loans aren't victims because it was their choice to go through with it

then she expands it out to people being homeless, having no job, no food, no water, etc, and how you always have a choice, so it wasn't really about me

;)
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Guynophobia is not online. Guynophobia
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Total Posts: 1043
08 Dec 2015 05:47 PM
"then she expands it out to people being homeless, having no job, no food, no water, etc, and how you always have a choice, so it wasn't really about me"

does she not understand that people are born into poverty? is that too complicated for your mother?

OP thinks he's so smart when his stupidity is so stupid it actually borders intelligence
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Plexahedron is not online. Plexahedron
Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 9609
08 Dec 2015 05:48 PM
Oh.
Yeah that's true, many of the homeless can't help their situation.
I'm sure that there are homeless people that have ended up where they are because of laziness or stupidity, but the fact is most of them couldn't have helped their situation.


"In sweet music is such art" - King Henry VIII
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NoiseMaster is not online. NoiseMaster
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 8646
08 Dec 2015 05:50 PM
Your mother does have a point, just not a very strong one.
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 05:53 PM
"does she not understand that people are born into poverty? is that too complicated for your mother?"

i mean she's thinking that people go from a decent status to poverty, not poverty by default

;)
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 05:54 PM
"Oh.
Yeah that's true, many of the homeless can't help their situation.
I'm sure that there are homeless people that have ended up where they are because of laziness or stupidity, but the fact is most of them couldn't have helped their situation."

which was my point

she argued many churches and charities can help the homeless with food, water, other things

i argued that that doesn't improve their quality of life for a lifetime and is that really a solution is the question here

;)
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 05:56 PM
"Your mother does have a point, just not a very strong one."

what point does she have?

;)
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md524997 is not online. md524997
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Total Posts: 8243
08 Dec 2015 06:05 PM
I'd say some things are avoidable and some things aren't, it's just that a lot of things that are easily avoidable are considered unavoidable by too many people. Nowadays it more translates to "I don't like this situation but I'm not bothered enough to get out of it because it would inconvenience me, please throw money at me to keep supporting my bad lifestyle."

Throwing money doesn't solve everything. If you want to learn about how money can get someone out of a situation, check out every lottery winner ever. Many people are bad at managing money and if they are given a lot of money they will blow it all and be back in their normal state a month later.

One last thing I want to comment on, If you think being born in poverty is a death sentence, you are being mislead. Andrew Carnegie was a Scottish immigrant with a very poor family who could barely afford the trip to America. Did he mope about talking about the lack of economic mobility, and go "woe is me, oh woe is me?" No. He got up, he started working, and eventually became one of the wealthiest people in the world for his time.
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Guynophobia is not online. Guynophobia
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Total Posts: 1043
08 Dec 2015 06:06 PM
"what point does she have?"

There is always a choice

OP thinks he's so smart when his stupidity is so stupid it actually borders intelligence
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 06:10 PM
"There is always a choice"

but that to me is a very weak point because a choice doesn't mean much if the choice doesn't change the situation which was her definition of choice

yeah a tsunami might be coming your way and you can make a choice to go outside and try to outrun it, but does it change the situation? no

;)
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 06:12 PM
"I'd say some things are avoidable and some things aren't, it's just that a lot of things that are easily avoidable are considered unavoidable by too many people. Nowadays it more translates to "I don't like this situation but I'm not bothered enough to get out of it because it would inconvenience me, please throw money at me to keep supporting my bad lifestyle."

Throwing money doesn't solve everything. If you want to learn about how money can get someone out of a situation, check out every lottery winner ever. Many people are bad at managing money and if they are given a lot of money they will blow it all and be back in their normal state a month later.

One last thing I want to comment on, If you think being born in poverty is a death sentence, you are being mislead. Andrew Carnegie was a Scottish immigrant with a very poor family who could barely afford the trip to America. Did he mope about talking about the lack of economic mobility, and go "woe is me, oh woe is me?" No. He got up, he started working, and eventually became one of the wealthiest people in the world for his time."

well some people are poor or homeless for a reason

to address the last part though

maybe he had better luck with people and jobs, maybe he had a barely good enough status to make it to where he is now, there's so many elements that can add to why he was able to make it out of that situation and to something greater which some people might just not have the same things

;)
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Guynophobia is not online. Guynophobia
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Total Posts: 1043
08 Dec 2015 06:13 PM
"but that to me is a very weak point because a choice doesn't mean much if the choice doesn't change the situation which was her definition of choice"

I doubt a person would be born homeless. I'm not sure why a homeless person would try for a kid or take that kind of risk in the position he/she is in.

So let's assume the to-be-homeless is a child in a poverty ridden family. They might've had the choice to do some kind of jobs for money.

"yeah a tsunami might be coming your way and you can make a choice to go outside and try to outrun it, but does it change the situation? no"

It does change the situation. You are now running from a massive wave of water instead of hiding from it.

OP thinks he's so smart when his stupidity is so stupid it actually borders intelligence
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 06:17 PM
"I doubt a person would be born homeless. I'm not sure why a homeless person would try for a kid or take that kind of risk in the position he/she is in.

So let's assume the to-be-homeless is a child in a poverty ridden family. They might've had the choice to do some kind of jobs for money."

remember you have to be clean and tidied up for pretty much every job to work and certain jobs you have to have an education or home address

"It does change the situation. You are now running from a massive wave of water instead of hiding from it."

you're failing to see my point

you can't outrun the tsunami

but you try to

does that change the fact the tsunami is going to still hit you and you're probably going to die?

no, not at all

;)
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Arthtex is not online. Arthtex
Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Total Posts: 4133
08 Dec 2015 06:18 PM
Judge and you will be judged m8.



http://www.roblox.com/test-2-item?id=301502229
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 06:20 PM
"Judge and you will be judged m8."

i don't see why i can't criticize someone without such backlash

;)
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Arthtex is not online. Arthtex
Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Total Posts: 4133
08 Dec 2015 06:22 PM
"I doubt a person would be born homeless"
you have no guardian but your mom
no dad
no sibling
no other guardian
your mom dies by giving birth to you
born homeless.



http://www.roblox.com/test-2-item?id=301502229
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 06:24 PM
"you have no guardian but your mom
no dad
no sibling
no other guardian
your mom dies by giving birth to you
born homeless."

i have heard many of these stories so i consider this valid

;)
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md524997 is not online. md524997
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Total Posts: 8243
08 Dec 2015 06:44 PM
"well some people are poor or homeless for a reason"

Yes, but how many of those are avoidable and/or correctable to restore previous economic state?

"to address the last part though

"maybe he had better luck with people and jobs,"

An appeal to coincidence makes for a weak argument.

"maybe he had a barely good enough status to make it to where he is now,"

He barely had anything compared to many others. He would be considered poor compared to your typical struggling family. Your lower class family today has far more than what poor people had previously, they have far more than what Andrew Carnegie had at the time, but they can't become better because their status isn't good enough? They have it far better than he did but they are still performing on mediocre levels. If your statement was right, then the lower class should be performing phenomenally.

"there's so many elements that can add to why he was able to make it out of that situation"

Agreed, not everyone's situation is the same, but why should situation matter? Shouldn't people work to make the best out of their situation and constantly seek to improve?

"and to something greater which some people might just not have the same things"

I already addressed this.
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reddanger is not online. reddanger
Joined: 27 May 2009
Total Posts: 38075
08 Dec 2015 08:20 PM
"Yes, but how many of those are avoidable and/or correctable to restore previous economic state?"

some are some aren't

"An appeal to coincidence makes for a weak argument."

i don't see how it's weak when coincidences do happen and can make your own argument weak because of it

"He barely had anything compared to many others. He would be considered poor compared to your typical struggling family. Your lower class family today has far more than what poor people had previously, they have far more than what Andrew Carnegie had at the time, but they can't become better because their status isn't good enough? They have it far better than he did but they are still performing on mediocre levels. If your statement was right, then the lower class should be performing phenomenally."

i said maybe and remember how long ago that was for him, things have clearly changed a lot nowadays compared to back then

"Agreed, not everyone's situation is the same, but why should situation matter? Shouldn't people work to make the best out of their situation and constantly seek to improve?"

because there are situations where you can't work or can't afford the cost of living even if you do work

;)
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gogobot22 is not online. gogobot22
Joined: 03 May 2009
Total Posts: 6212
08 Dec 2015 08:22 PM
Not at all, but your perspective of reality is different than hers. Don't impose it on anyone else.
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