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| 11 Oct 2015 12:15 AM |
Reasons: -Less content (still some new content, but still less content) -No story-mode -Somehow, Online matches trigger your hands to sweat more -Falco and Mario need to be changed. A new update should tweak their moves, as the moves are the worst and they're the root of all evil and spamming -Grabbing (The root of all spamming) |
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| 11 Oct 2015 12:16 AM |
| they're the roots* Sorry, typo. |
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WikiThis
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| Joined: 01 Aug 2013 |
| Total Posts: 20357 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:23 AM |
"as the moves are the worst and they're the root of all evil and spamming"
I thought that was Sonic. From what people always tell me. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 09:03 AM |
"-Less content (still some new content, but still less content)" Fair enough, but I still like this content a lot more than Brawl or even Melee. It just feels better balanced.
"-No story-mode" Story Mode was insanely expensive and time consuming, the game was already delayed once, delaying it again for Story Mode would make people more mad than happy.
"-Somehow, Online matches trigger your hands to sweat more" Then stop getting tense from Online Matches. Unlike Brawl this one actually feels more competitive. Melee also has this effect.
"-Falco and Mario need to be changed. A new update should tweak their moves, as the moves are the worst and they're the root of all evil and spamming" You can spam with any character.
"-Grabbing (The root of all spamming)" Sure, let's remove grabbing and now have you complain that Bowser is OP because he blocks well. |
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Qliphoth
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 5637 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 09:45 AM |
"Fair enough, but I still like this content a lot more than Brawl or even Melee. It just feels better balanced."
minus the grammatical error, sm4sh has less content singleplayer-wise
"You can spam with any character."
that's the problem with the game
"Sure, let's remove grabbing and now have you complain that Bowser is OP because he blocks well."
bowser isn't OP, his grab special can be teched at the blastline, and his shield is the same as every other character
so yes, OP is right |
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| 11 Oct 2015 09:57 AM |
@Qliphoth, "minus the grammatical error, sm4sh has less content singleplayer-wise" True, but I still like it being better balanced in multiplayer, which was the main thing people played anyway.
"that's the problem with the game" It is, but spamming is really predictable and easy to counter.
"bowser isn't OP, his grab special can be teched at the blastline, and his shield is the same as every other character" Okay...The scratch that: Sure, let's remove grabbing and now have you complain that Defense is OP because blocking is now practically un-counterable.
His facts are right, but removing grabbing isn't a good decision. Sm4sh is honestly meant as a casual game, if you want hardcore you go to other ones like Mortal Combat, Street Fighter etc. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 09:59 AM |
>mario and falco >spam
LMAOO |
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Qliphoth
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 5637 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 11:03 AM |
"True, but I still like it being better balanced in multiplayer, which was the main thing people played anyway."
melee's multiplayer is objectively the best
"It is, but spamming is really predictable and easy to counter."
the fact that rolls can be spammed and are frequently unpunishable is lame. speaking of counters, too many characters have counters
"Okay...The scratch that: Sure, let's remove grabbing and now have you complain that Defense is OP because blocking is now practically un-counterable."
i never said removing command grabs is a good idea. saying that bowser is OP due to his grab special is incorrect.
"His facts are right, but removing grabbing isn't a good decision. Sm4sh is honestly meant as a casual game, if you want hardcore you go to other ones like Mortal Combat, Street Fighter etc."
if you want a hardcore game, play melee
that game is actually difficult. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 11:16 AM |
"melee's multiplayer is objectively the best" Maybe, but in my opinion melee was too stiff, movement in 4 just feels smoother.
"the fact that rolls can be spammed and are frequently unpunishable is lame. speaking of counters, too many characters have counters " I don't think people should be punished for avoiding attacks. I do agree about the counter bit though.
"i never said removing command grabs is a good idea. saying that bowser is OP due to his grab special is incorrect." Well...Okay then.
"if you want a hardcore game, play melee
that game is actually difficult." I kinda was a bit disappointed at 9.0 to be honest, I expected something like the "Final Showdown" like difficulty from melee to unlock afterwards. (Giga Bowser + Gannon + Mewtwo I think?) |
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Qliphoth
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 5637 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 11:29 AM |
"Maybe, but in my opinion melee was too stiff, movement in 4 just feels smoother."
yeah, because sliding around on the ground and platforms isn't fluid whatsoever.
"I don't think people should be punished for avoiding attacks. I do agree about the counter bit though."
yeah just spam dodges left and right until the round times out. that's always fun
"if you want a hardcore game, play melee
"I kinda was a bit disappointed at 9.0 to be honest, I expected something like the "Final Showdown" like difficulty from melee to unlock afterwards. (Giga Bowser + Gannon + Mewtwo I think?)"
i wasn't referring to the singleplayer modes. i'm talking about multiplayer in tournaments.
if you don't know any kinda of advanced techniques, you'll get bodied. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 12:11 PM |
"yeah, because sliding around on the ground and platforms isn't fluid whatsoever." I didn't say Melee wasn't smooth.
"yeah just spam dodges left and right until the round times out. that's always fun" You even down-smash bro?
"i wasn't referring to the singleplayer modes. i'm talking about multiplayer in tournaments.
if you don't know any kinda of advanced techniques, you'll get bodied." Because making use of glitches is techniques. There is still a lot of skill in 4, at least it's not Brawl which nobody really did tournaments with. If you like Melee better, go play Melee.
If they made it exactly like Melee people would complain that it was the same, there is just no way to make Smash fans happy at this point. "I liked brawl better." "Melee was better." etc. etc. They get both of these no matter what they do. |
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Qliphoth
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 5637 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 12:30 PM |
"I didn't say Melee wasn't smooth."
"You even down-smash bro?"
there are 2 downsmashes that can remotely cover the distance for rolls
"if you don't know any kinda of advanced techniques, you'll get bodied." Because making use of glitches is techniques."
literally none of the techniques in melee are glitches. every single one was programmed into the game.
"There is still a lot of skill in 4, at least it's not Brawl which nobody really did tournaments with. If you like Melee better, go play Melee."
at least brawl had a neutral game, even if it was mostly defensive
"If they made it exactly like Melee people would complain that it was the same, there is just no way to make Smash fans happy at this point."
>melee players have been wanting another melee game for the past 14 years
"I liked brawl better." "Melee was better." etc. etc. They get both of these no matter what they do."
there's no reason not to make another melee-esque game
all HAL and Nintendo did to smash bros was make the game more casual, which is a poor decision for the genre |
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| 11 Oct 2015 12:59 PM |
"there are 2 downsmashes that can remotely cover the distance for rolls" And there are about 30 side-smashes that can reach rolls. Just predict where they'll end up when they roll and strike there.
"literally none of the techniques in melee are glitches. every single one was programmed into the game." Like dodging right when you hit the ground to slide backwards quickly?
"at least brawl had a neutral game, even if it was mostly defensive" What do you mean by brawl having a neutral game?
">melee players have been wanting another melee game for the past 14 years" And many, many players are happy with 4.
"there's no reason not to make another melee-esque game
all HAL and Nintendo did to smash bros was make the game more casual, which is a poor decision for the genre" Unless, you know, the majority of Smash players are actually casual. If they remake melee they'll get angry brawl fans.
Casual =/= bad, as long as it's fun it's fine. I myself find 4 more fun than Melee, even though it's easier. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 01:16 PM |
Melee vs sm4ash Still the most useless argument to exist
"Hit the lever!" |
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| 11 Oct 2015 01:17 PM |
"Like dodging right when you hit the ground to slide backwards quickly?"
Sakurai knew about wavedashing when he was making the game, he just didn't think it would matter. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 02:17 PM |
Its true. When im playing Link (My main) I always sweat for no reason.
Also when your playing online on 3DS its extremely laggy. Even with great internet connection. |
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man1912
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2011 |
| Total Posts: 8798 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 03:08 PM |
| The only thing I hate about SSB4 is all the on disc DLC |
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Qliphoth
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 5637 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 05:51 PM |
"Unless, you know, the majority of Smash players are actually casual."
there is no such thing as a casual Smash Bros. games
"If they remake melee they'll get angry brawl fans."
brawl doesn't have a fanbase
"Casual =/= bad, as long as it's fun it's fine. I myself find 4 more fun than Melee, even though it's easier."
if the game's poorly-designed and fun (if that can occur), then the game is still bad
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:32 PM |
"there is no such thing as a casual Smash Bros. games" You were implying 4 was a casual game.
"brawl doesn't have a fanbase" It does, quite a big one actually.
"if the game's poorly-designed and fun (if that can occur), then the game is still bad" Being different from Melee =/= bad design. Also, games have one purpose: Fun.
Tell me why it's badly designed. I can't really think of any issues that 4 has that Melee doesn't. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:33 PM |
i really don't care that much
no need to be uncivil in this thread |
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:35 PM |
@Excallawag, I'm trying to be civil here, honestly.
I'm pretty sure Qliphoth is too, but I'm not him so I wouldn't know. |
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Qliphoth
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 5637 |
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:39 PM |
"Being different from Melee =/= bad design. Also, games have one purpose: Fun."
being different from Smash 64 == bad design
games have multiple purposes, depeding on the genre fighting games are meant to play competitively competition leads to tournaments for money
"Tell me why it's badly designed. I can't really think of any issues that 4 has that Melee doesn't."
>too many clones/semi-clones >too many characters have moves that counter >controls are unpolished >knockback is irrelevant >no meteor cancels >single player differs from the previous games (which every previous game has, and does right) >music is lackluster for the variety of amazing soundtracks from past games >every good character uses the down-throw-up-air combo >no neutral game >no edgehogging |
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:45 PM |
rivals of aether is a pretty good game that uses smash-like mechanics
there's no grabbing, but shielding has been replaced by a counter
basically melee's engine but auto l-cancels
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:52 PM |
"being different from Smash 64 == bad design
games have multiple purposes, depeding on the genre fighting games are meant to play competitively competition leads to tournaments for money"
Fighting games are meant to play competitively, really? That's an opinion, not a fact. Apparently them making a remake of Melee over and over would have be a better decision, after all, Melee is the perfect holy grail.
Each game is supposed to be different from the last, if they made a Melee-style game then people would complain they changed something, even if it's one little thing.
Okay... ">too many clones/semi-clones" - Melee has that too. ">too many characters have moves that counter" - Fair enough.
">controls are unpolished" - Not really honestly, they take getting used to but they're done good, it could be worse and you can customize it.
">knockback is irrelevant" - Yeah, getting KOs is irrelevant, amiright.
">no meteor cancels" - A what?
">single player differs from the previous games (which every previous game has, and does right)" - So it's not right because it's not Melee?
">music is lackluster for the variety of amazing soundtracks from past games" - Um...No? Megaman's stage sounds different then the original Megaman music. etc.
">every good character uses the down-throw-up-air combo" - Down-dodge, Smash. ">no neutral game" - No what? ">no edgehogging" - Oh, that cheap tactic that made knocking people up irrelevant compared to the side? I'm glad that's gone. |
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| 11 Oct 2015 06:54 PM |
| lol'd at freddy and qliloph arguing over which CASUAL FIGHTING GAME is better |
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