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Re: Concerning the Update.

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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
23 Apr 2015 06:12 PM
This is going to sound like a lot of things I've said in the past and very similar to what a friend of mine told me a long while ago.

Design, of any kind, regardless of how seemingly easy it might be, is HARD. Lets get that out of the way a minute so you don't think that design is easy. Because let me tell you something; it isn't.

Design is hard.

Especially game design -- where designing an MMO amassing a population in the millions that needs constant updates to say alive with only 80 or so administrators and moderators running it is hard.

H-A-R-D

HARD.

I would go as far as to say it is one of the hardest jobs you can possibly have in the ENTIRE WORLD that does not involve physical activity. Try it one day. In fact, try it right now on this spot and try to come up with something original; let's veer away from Roblox right now.


Go on, think of something.


Struggling?


Feel their weight now?


Good.

I would DREAD to be in the room that had to design the foundations of Roblox -- and especially in the room that keeps it alive day to day. I mean, the fact that Roblox is being run by 80 something people? That is HARD. VERY, VERY, HARD. Think of the ratio of moderators to players. 1 to hundreds of thousands.

Had you been in the room where this most recent update was being designed, you would understand the task Roblox faces. The creation of a bold new look for Roblox would certainly be a very stressful task - especially since the community reacts so violently to any update regardless of how well thought out or actually beneficial it is to Roblox.

Underestimating this monumental task, trust me, that is a surefire way to not be taken seriously.
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LegendaryAccount is not online. LegendaryAccount
Joined: 02 Jun 2010
Total Posts: 13193
23 Apr 2015 06:23 PM
breaking old games ~= improved roblox

many people had to edit their gui layouts to make it work with the new top bar like deathrun and me
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
23 Apr 2015 06:29 PM
The intention of the update was to improve Roblox.

That is undeniable.
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fur911 is not online. fur911
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 2344
23 Apr 2015 06:39 PM
"try to come up with something original"

body-selling male fullbodied nikee shoes
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
23 Apr 2015 06:47 PM
I will admit that is original..?


I was implying something more worth while, long lasting, and -- no offence -- more intelligent and intriguing.
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iwishforpie1 is not online. iwishforpie1
Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Total Posts: 1423
24 Apr 2015 04:50 PM
"The intention of the update was to improve Roblox."

no, I'm not going to flame.

Did they not get that changing the website was bad enough? God hope they don't change the forums.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 08:54 PM
*ahem bump*
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 08:58 PM
Im not letting this go away X[

This is literally the same thing I said 5 months ago when people were in a fit about whatever it was that no one remembers now.
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GuyMind is not online. GuyMind
Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Total Posts: 379
01 Sep 2015 08:59 PM
You keep referencing how they're "designers"

We're not questioning their skill, it's obvious they're proficient with HTML & CSS and they know what they're doing

What we question is if they know what the majority of the users want to see in updates, which they obviously don't.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:03 PM
You can't arbitrarily associate "the majority" to your own personal opinions.

That's just wrong, especially when you have nothing scientific to back up that claim.
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GuyMind is not online. GuyMind
Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Total Posts: 379
01 Sep 2015 09:05 PM
Look at almost all of the front pages of the forums and tell me that the majority of people are happy about this update.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:12 PM
I don't see anything that would suggest to me that a majority of those people who play Roblox dislike this update.

Its at least observable that the forums have been flooded with senseless complainers.

Regardless of how beautifully conceived it is, all updates big and small receive and over abundance of senseless criticisms. Roblox does not have the ability to cater to let alone read all the hatred and complaints of each individual on the site.

I admit, the community had reacted negatively to this (although they have for ever update, big and small, in the past). Lets ignore that for now and get to the point.

People want to revert the update through discussing it on the forums. Has the community done this successfully?

The answer to that is no.

The reason for this is that it is much more fun for an individual to go around complaining, whining, petitioning, etc, rather than discussing things and making suggestions for improvement. And if those individuals don't see any immediate affects then they criticize Roblox for not doing their (here're those words again) very hard job.


Case in point -- if the members of the community who want to change something put forth the effort to make that change then it would be accomplished.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:17 PM
Bump


Im not letting this die in the flood of hatred.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:19 PM
Bump
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:23 PM
God the spam in the forums X[
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mathepa is not online. mathepa
Joined: 01 May 2008
Total Posts: 8439
01 Sep 2015 09:24 PM
I understand that design is hard, I knew this design was coming. They did it wrong the first time with games, took it out for a week, fixed it, and added it back.

But even as a designer you should be able to look at something like this and realize you degraded many things.

The biggest problem I have is simply the showcase of developers games.

But anyways, just read this, I'm not relisting everything. I like the layout but it needs upgrades to be decently intuitive: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=173025590
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:36 PM
I'm not arguing opinions. Whether the new layout does, or does not, execute its main concepts well or satisfactorily appeals your sense of nostalgia is irrelevant to my point. What DOES matter, is that you, the person dissecting the update, cannot make anything out of those dissections.

You have just exposed all of the problems, fixing them should be trivial. Best case scenario, you should be able to outright replace the new layout, using a better execution to the main concepts.

The entire point of dissecting an update is to be able to find the flaws of that update and fix them. No matter how well you rip an update apart, if you haven't turned the rags into something more beneficial, then you've failed.

So, disfigure it and rip it all you want.

But remember, its here to stay. Updates cant be reverted, only altered. So how are you going to change it? So how are you going to >improve< it?
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Coltera is not online. Coltera
Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 7269
01 Sep 2015 09:44 PM
We must

do something




(Like... hmm)
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IlIll is not online. IlIll
Joined: 28 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 896
01 Sep 2015 09:48 PM
it goes against ux design values.. devs have been arguing about it while it was in beta yet the admins haven't listened.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 09:49 PM
Admins DO listen.

They just don't listen to the complaints of children who cant provide

ACTUAL

CONSTRUCTIVE

CRITICISM.


Where on these forums has anyone been constructive?
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IlIll is not online. IlIll
Joined: 28 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 896
01 Sep 2015 09:54 PM
on rbxdev, not here
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 10:01 PM
Regardless, my point still stands.
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mathepa is not online. mathepa
Joined: 01 May 2008
Total Posts: 8439
01 Sep 2015 10:10 PM
Isn't the point of dissecting the update to voice the problems? The designers job is to figure out how to fix those problems, that is not necessarily my job. I have placed constructive criticism, I have even suggested a few ways to improve it and a few ways to redo it entirely. This is not nostalgia for me, I like the new look, but they have made some ignorant changes to the profile in terms of priorities. The only way to fix that is to go back to the main focus of roblox (games and showcasing developer's work), or to build a showcase where users choose what to show first on their profile.

Either way, I think the best way to solve the problem is to make a youtube-style fix where the profile becomes block-based and you can insert widgets into those blocks.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 10:25 PM
The point of dissecting an update is to find and fix the flaws in its execution.

Let me put it into better terms.

There are two fundamental core principles that you have to understand and take away from this if nothing else:

The Concept and The Execution.

What are these you ask? The concept is an idea that Roblox (or anyone for that matter) wants to accomplish or achieve. It is the goal or intention of a particular update. The execution is how the update is implemented or carried out.

All updates are the executions of concepts.

There is no such thing as a bad concept, only a bad execution. The point of an update is to change something for the better and regardless of how it seems, all updates are based off of good concepts.
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cavedog962 is not online. cavedog962
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5112
01 Sep 2015 10:37 PM
I honestly do not want to argue, I just want a change in the way the community acts.

For that one must provide suggestions on how to improve an update rather than state only why said update is wrong without suggesting any ways to fix the problems.


That's like taking your car into the shop and having the mechanic say "Well, you have all these problems and I'm not going to fix it for you or tell you how to improve anything in any way, but you can go ahead and try fix it all yourself. When you bring it back here, I'll just do the same thing but this time be more upset because you ended up making it worse instead of better."
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