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Re: "Victory Through Sacrifice" ISRP

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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 05:05 PM
[There will be a limit on how many join, when its closed its closed until I am able to host ISRPs for more people]

OOC\FYI: This uses our dates, but it is alternate history same with certain equipment.

The year is 1934, war has broken out between two extremely powerful nations. All over a unreasonable argument between Ministers of each country. They were once friends, but now they are fighting to the death. As the casualties start to rise as both nations try to get the upper hand on each other. 3 years later, the war is still raging between both countries. This time, they are joined by there allies as well. The military death toll has reached over a staggering 10 million but triple that amount in civilian deaths.

One of those casualties is Major General Jakob Marther, head of the 47th [TYPE] division. You are his replacement, your rapid promotion has led you to the rank of Lieutenant General. But are you ready to lead a [TYPE] division with no leadership experience?

[CS]

You are currently sitting down at the military rail road junction in the capital of your country. You are currently reading the report written by one of your officers who you will soon be leading.


It reads:

"Major General [NAME], this is Captain Mac Arthur. The 47th [TYPE] division welcomes you as our commander. The 47th [TYPE] division currently stands at 12000 men strong, as recent engagements has brought down our total count of men down. From 12000 men down to 6700 men. But the army group HQ says that our division is still fit for combat, this division is somewhat rather new to the lines. Being made 1 year ago, we still have alot to learn in combat experience. Our division is currently pulled back from the front lines because we will be awaiting your arrival. The divisions morale is rather low, with the death of our previous commander Major General Jakob Marther. Some men started to doubt if you, our current commander is fit for the leadership role. Due to you being under the radar of generals that we wanted to get. Soldiers in our division is saying that 'Oh great, we got a newbie'. But yet again, the 47th [TYPE] division welcomes you with open hearts. We await your arrival."

Signed

Captain Mc Arthur

(COMBAT)
Combat in Victory Though Sacrifice is different, instead of role-playing it out (Which will take more than 5 pages of Roleplay) it will be based on a dice roll and turned based. For example, the dice has 6 sides and each advantage you have will grant you one side that you will win. [A TANK DIVISION GOING AGAINST A MILITIA DIVISION: PLUS 1], this applies for defend as well. [DEFENDING A RIVER SIDE CROSSING: PLUS 1] etc etc. The dice roll will depend on many things that exists in most battle fought. Experience, morale, training, those sort've stuff. You will be given traits that will give you an advantage in combat. That's how the combat system will work. Once the battle is finished you will role-play the aftermath etc.

(DIVISIONS)
5 Divisions are able to be chosen, you may upgrade your division in the future.

Light Tank - A standard tank division consists of 150 tanks split into 3 brigades of 4000 men, tanks, and other military equipment. Tank warfare is just being introduced to the order of battle and tactics, many generals think its only used to support infantry advances. The standard light tank for the division is the LTM1 (Basically an M3 Stuart but with heavier armour and slower speed. Still considered a light tank by the military.)..
Infantry - A standard infantry division consists of 4 brigades of 3000 men each. They are equipped with small arms and artillery. Since tanks are still being introduced into the war, they are not equipped with anti-tank weapons of any sort. The only anti-tank weapons to their disposal are hand-made anti-tank weapons. (Such as the Molotov cocktail)
Light - A light infantry division consists of 4 brigades of 3000 men each. They are designed for speed and faster breakthroughs, the light infantry division if well organised and is able to move out faster than any division. But at the cost of artillery and anti-tank weapons. The only artillery at the light infantries disposal is infantry carried mortars.
Calvary - Your traditional break tough divisions, based of extremely fast moment and exploiting break through. With this, there are 6 brigades of 2000 men each. It lacks anti-tank weapons, it has horse drawn artillery.

(TRAITS)
The Old Timer - Plus 1 attack with Calvary and improved defence of defensive lines of trenches. Minus 1 attack with tank divisions.

Defence Master - Plus 1 defence with any defence set up. Minus 1 attack.
The "Hero" - Plus 1 morale of all division types.

Tank Blitzkrieg - Plus 1 attack with armour as well as improved armour speed.
[NOTE: This takes two traits slots]

Mechanised Master - Faster movement speed for all mechanised and armour divisions. Increased division stopping speed.

"By the book" - Increases organisation for all unit types.

The "Crack-down" - Increased strictness on the troops, plus 1 attack for all divisions. Improved chances of men breaking down with the strictness.

Master of Sieges - Plus 1 attack when attack fortified positions.

Master Mind - Improved organisation of units, Plus 1 attack to all divisions. When ambushed, do not do anything for one move.



You brush the report to the side and you see your replacement papers. It reads:

MAJOR GENERAL [NAME]
COMMANDER OF THE 47th [TYPE] DIVISION
CURRENT AGE [AGE]
[TRAITS: YOU CAN CHOOSE 3, YOU WILL EARN MORE TRAITS IN THE FUTURE]
TRAINED IN CHURA MILITARY ACADEMY
PERSONAL BELONGINGS GRANTED BY THE MINISTER OF THE ARMY [CHOOSE ANY SMALL BELONGINGS, THEY ARE LOCATED IN YOUR BRIEF CASE. WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE TABLE NEXT TO YOUR REPORTS]
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gavinfirefox is not online. gavinfirefox
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 18440
17 Aug 2015 05:25 PM
Would it be possible to adapt a trait to fit something more guerrilla based?
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 05:34 PM
Indeed, like the CS says, you will earn traits in the future. For example, (This is a possibility) your division is encircled, the brigades in the division dissipates to launch a guerilla trait.

A few traits I thought of this is
Guerilla Master - Plus 1 hit and run attacks and mobility when encircled.

Urban Guerilla Master - ONLY applies to the home countries cities. Plus 2 hit and run attacks and mobility when encircled.

Things like that, please ask if you do you understand anything so far. Or my answer isn't good enough to your understanding.
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GertrudeIsEdgy is not online. GertrudeIsEdgy
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Total Posts: 46
17 Aug 2015 05:45 PM
I RUN ALL OVER THE PLACE TAKING MASSIVE DUMPS
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gavinfirefox is not online. gavinfirefox
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 18440
17 Aug 2015 06:17 PM
Does this apply to ambushes for Guerrilla Master, as that was a key part of the tactic.

Is there any start-out customization to divisions? As in I'm choosing infantry but would like a higher then average number of machine gun teams and a few more snipers to coincide with my fighting style
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 06:23 PM
Yes, there would be start-out customisation to your divisions. Its your division, you do what you want with you. You could even make a division logo and motto if you wanna go that far in. But in the roleplay, (No spoilers) your division may be named by other generals, the media, as well as the enemy. For example, if your division is famous in the army and is feared by the enemy. It would grant you an advantage in battle, though this advantage would only work on regular and militia units. If you run into elite units, the advantage is thrown out the window.
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 06:25 PM
Yes, for the traits, it applies with ambushes as well.
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gavinfirefox is not online. gavinfirefox
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 18440
17 Aug 2015 06:40 PM
MAJOR GENERAL Patrick T. Flanders [isnt it Lt. General?]

COMMANDER OF THE 47th INFANTRY DIVISION

CURRENT AGE 32

Hero, Crack-down, [give me a moment to decide]

TRAINED IN CHURA MILITARY ACADEMY

PERSONAL BELONGINGS GRANTED BY THE MINISTER OF THE ARMY Binoculars, Map, Compass, Model 44. and a Flak Vest [more of a hands-on general, moreso for the morale]
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gavinfirefox is not online. gavinfirefox
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 18440
17 Aug 2015 06:41 PM
Since it applies to ambushes then Guerrilla master
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 06:53 PM
Alrighto before I get your thread, what's your characters thoughts about leading a division?
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pirate59392 is not online. pirate59392
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 3869
17 Aug 2015 06:57 PM
It says there's 5 divisions to pick from, but I only see 4.

Light Tank, Infantry, Light, and Cavalry.

You reference a Mechanized unit in one of the Traits, is that the fifth?
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 07:03 PM
Shat, I forgot about that. There is 5 divisions available, the mechanised division is available from the start. Lemme add its description:

Mechanised: A bit slower than cavalry but can keep up with that armour. It consists of 4 brigades of 3000 men each, the division move by trucks and pre-pre armoured personnel carriers as well as pre-pre half tracks. The Mechanised has artillery and has anti-tank capabilities. (There anti-tank gun is the ATM1 which is literally the 37mm taken off the M3 Stuart, add wheels and a blast shield and gun sights.)
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Z0rr0w is not online. Z0rr0w
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 14027
17 Aug 2015 07:13 PM
>instead of role-playing it out (Which will take more than 5 pages of Roleplay) it will be based on a dice roll and turned based.

Ignoring the fact that you've implemented a system designed to take the roleplaying out of a roleplay, there's two serious issues I see with this.

First, it promotes a numbers-trump-strategy mind of thinking, at least, in the way I see it. Why strategise if you can just focus on keeping troop and morale numbers high? Yes, you show specific events that give you an advantage (such as defending a river), but I'm not sure you'll be able to incentivise real strategic thinking, especially when you involve a factor of luck in the dice rolls.

Secondly, it creates a kind of dissonance in the RP. When you're not role-playing out a scenario, a good bit of tension is just lost. It ceases to feel like your putting up all your possible strategies to get out of an enemy encounter alive, and it feels like you're checking off items on a list for you to get the best possible outcome.

But, that's just a problem I see in the combat. The next issue is that of the story, or what propels not just a character forward through the RP, but also the person behind the keyboard controlling the character. With the way combat and such works in this RP, it's much like a nation RP, but without the enjoyment of creating and running a nation.

The only person I've seen that's done a nation RP well is a guy named Precisionfire (but he abandoned the nation RP he had set up for me whooptydoo). The reason his nation RP worked was because there was really a sense of agency to your character, because you were directly involved in everything. Not only did you have to issue commands, you had to get into the middle of the fight to help your men, you had to strategise and worry about whether or not your strategy would work (since the numbers and dice rolls weren't shown to you), and you had to deal with the added issue of managing a nation's food, water, and diplomatic relations.

None of that is in here, as you're under orders by someone in a higher place of power than you, and I feel that will lead to the RP getting stale, with you just leading men through doing stuff with no clear end goal in sight. I'd say that's a good thing, if you were doing a dystopian-esque RP to show the futility of war and the mental effect it has on the people directly involved, and the people calling the shots. But, based on the writing style of your short plot, I don't think that's the case.

This RP looks like it has potential, but I think there's far too many problems. If you could fix these problems, or convince me they aren't actually problems and I'm just spitting out rubbish, that'd be great.
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pirate59392 is not online. pirate59392
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 3869
17 Aug 2015 07:21 PM
(cool)

MAJOR GENERAL JANS G. ERDMAN

COMMANDER OF THE 47th MECHANIZED DIVISION

CURRENT AGE 32

"BY THE BOOK", MECHANIZED MASTER, MASTER OF SEIGES

TRAINED IN CHURA MILITARY ACADEMY

PERSONAL BELONGINGS GRANTED BY THE MINISTER OF THE ARMY 1x BILLFOLD, 5x SMALL PHOTOGRAPH (LARGEST 4x5"), 1x WOOL BARRACKS PULLOVER (ft. DIVISION INSIGNIA 47th), 1x DECORATIVE POCKET WATCH
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pirate59392 is not online. pirate59392
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 3869
17 Aug 2015 07:38 PM
*cough*
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 07:50 PM
@Z0rr0w

Ty for criticism.

For the turn-based combat system isn't "Oh a battle! Lets roll the dive and see who's the winner with the advantages/disadvantages! I won huuhzaa!!" not that thing. I took in to consideration what you said with the suspense etc. In combat there's going to be the percentage of the battle situation, (like in hearts of iron if you played it). The combatants starts at 0 (When attacking) and 100 (When defending). Little problems arise during the battle, and you have to think how your going to deal with the problem. I want the battles to have suspense and want to think if your going to win the battle or lose. The turn based is a complete failure of editing on my part, I meant to take it out. I want to it to be solely on a dice role(Ish). The actual dice roll is determined within stages of the battle, for example lemme roleplay a bit for you.

The opening stages of the battle (attacking a fortified) will be determined with a dice role, if you win a problem will arise something like:

"Sir! We have inflicted heavy casualties on the enemy and they're routing the minute we speak! But one of our brigades on our left flank has reported a heavy concentration of enemy forces! We estimate at least three enemy brigades ready for to make an counter attack!"

That's when you attack with three brigades head on and leave one brigade defending the flank. The enemy will try to out-play you and gain the advantage. Another example with the same plan, three brigades head on and one brigade defending each flank but looses.

"Sir! Our main attack force has been repulsed! We have suffered heavy casualties but one of our brigade leader is suggesting that he/she sends a small task force armed with explosives to blow up fortified positions on the left flank, if they succeed we are able to send in our three brigades to storm the enemy fortified positions and them behind them!"

Something like that, the dice roll is only rolled if both sides at a deadlock. I roll the dice to break the deadlock, or I decide to let the character roleplay it out and then I role the dice. See if there decisions make a affect of the battle. For example, the enemy is attacking a heavily fortified, experienced, well-trained division. On the dice the enemy would be Number 1 and the player 2-6. An 83% to win the defence but if the enemy wins, there would be no 'immediate' break through. The players units would only route, thus not losing the battle completely.

Combat in the ISRP is not an instant win or loss, it just depends if both the player and the enemy is are a decision that a game-maker could not make on who wins and who loses. That's when the dice comes in.

The plot is fault, since I was rebooting this for the third time. I didn't not even touch the plot, which is my mistake by accident. In the ISRP I wanted to ease the player in with the information, not 'blart' it out in front of the face. Something like starting a brand new game you never played before. But apparently that doesn't work, so next time I'll surely improve my plot writing skills.

All I would like to say is thank you for criticizing my work. I wanted to have someone point out my flaws and problems within my RPs.

Anyways, if there is anything you do not still understand please say I'll try to answer it to the best of my ability.
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 07:51 PM
@Pirate, sorry.

Before I get your thread, what's your characters thoughts about leading the division? I want to roleplay our your characters body actions when you get called to your train.
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pirate59392 is not online. pirate59392
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 3869
17 Aug 2015 07:52 PM
Am I accepted tho.
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pirate59392 is not online. pirate59392
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 3869
17 Aug 2015 07:53 PM
Sorry, posted simultaneously I guess.

He's putting on an air of confidence about the whole situation, when in truth he's quite concerned about his own ability.
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Z0rr0w is not online. Z0rr0w
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 14027
17 Aug 2015 08:01 PM
Alright, the combat sounds good. There's still the issue of there not being enough stuff to manage. Is there any chance you could have a sort-of attrition system, where if you go off on a mission for too long you have to scrounge for food and water? I feel like that would add a lot to the overall stress of warfare in the roleplay.

And maybe, if you think you want to go that route, at some point in the roleplay the Minister of your country could die and there's a power struggle among politicians and army high-ranks to try to take the Minister's place, and you could offer the player a chance to try to get to that position as well.
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gavinfirefox is not online. gavinfirefox
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 18440
17 Aug 2015 08:08 PM
Both of you are lacking one thing in your discussion on the combat system, and it's honestly of incredibly important.

Common sense.

Making actions to counter their actions and then rolling a dice is simply an extended version of the original system, without bringing that in as a factor. A general rule of thumb I've seen in ISRPs (and RPs) when using dice rolls is about 50% common sense and 50% dice (aka luck) or the even better 60% CS and 40% luck. This allows you to legitimately outsmart your opponent and truly try to have a battle of wits with each combat (very important, it gives a sort of fighting while attempting to win a chess game feeling), but you still have to account for your soldiers fighting ability and positioning/terrain and the luck factor that always rears its head.

I just dislike the idea of someone making basic or even average tactics (enough they could win) and winning while someone who had planned a complex and perfectly executed attack loses because the dice was not in their favor.
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pirate59392 is not online. pirate59392
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 3869
17 Aug 2015 08:23 PM
True.

I fully intend on making complicated strategies, and it'd be nice to see them fail or succeed based on their merit, not just some dice.
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 08:25 PM
@gavinfirefox

I get what you are trying to say, and I'll re-think the entire combat system in the ISRP. If it causes to much trouble between the players and me, I'll scrap it in general. With what you said, I could rethink how the dice roll would work. If the player planned a complex and perfectly executed attack, it would be an auto win by default. But with the dice roll could depend on how well the enemy is willing to resist and try to repulse the attack. For example, the enemy could be willing to fight to the last man an willing to die. Your units would take more casualties than usual, and if a player does a lousy planed attack. They are punished dearly, for example it would not be a win be default and take heavy casualties. Or if the player wins, the units would take extraordinarily heavy casualties and a heavy blow to morale.

I could make it that, or I could just rip the combat system and throw it out the window into the rain.

@Pirate, its on its way. Hold on.
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 08:39 PM
@pirate59392: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=171585953
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RAE181 is not online. RAE181
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 2226
17 Aug 2015 09:18 PM
@gavenfirefox: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=171589803
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