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Stop conflating conservatism with fallacious stereotypes.

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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
05 Aug 2015 10:46 PM
I'm stating the fact that if you support death row inmates, and reduce restrictions on airstrikes in civilian areas, Do not uphold the label that you are "Pro-Life"



So even if a mother is going through complications and is at serious risk of dying or serious injury she can't get an bortion?

Even if a mother is dirt poor and can't afford the baby and it was an accident she can't get an bortion?


Even if someone was violated, or underage, or both, she cannot get an bortion?

What about *>cest? or mental illness?
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
05 Aug 2015 10:48 PM
Why are you offended that I'm insulting fox news?

Just simply tell me if you think Fox news "accurately" depicts the conservative viewpoint.

If it didn't, you would of told me so. But apparently it does because you're making such a big deal about it.
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NeoEclipse is not online. NeoEclipse
Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Total Posts: 5407
05 Aug 2015 10:48 PM
Get out of politics and go play with your toys.

yar!!! scurvy land lubbers!
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
05 Aug 2015 10:49 PM
Are we gonna stay on this social issue all night or are we gonna move onto the other parts of conservatism.

I'm really only more *liberal* on social issues, on other issues I'm more moderate and lean even on the right a bit more.
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Devactivus is not online. Devactivus
Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Total Posts: 4619
05 Aug 2015 10:50 PM
We were all once babies.
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
05 Aug 2015 11:03 PM
"We were all once babies."

learn the difference from a baby - which is alive, and a fetus - which isn't
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
05 Aug 2015 11:05 PM
logging off for tonite
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Scissorbane is not online. Scissorbane
Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 1337
05 Aug 2015 11:48 PM
Yes, even if the mother is poor, she still doesn't have the right to strip the baby of his or her human life. You're making the implicit assumption that money adds value to life, which is false, as a life can be well-lived even in impoverishment.

'"Also, just because it's a short pain doesn't make it a justified pain. That pain shouldn't happen in the first place, because mothers ought to not have the right to become executioners."


->Death row inmates don't have a right to consent
->Poor civilians don't have a right to consent to die from US airstrikes which could be reduced by more safer military conduct denied by congress on republican half.'

You're a huge idiot, making red herring fallacies like this. I'm a Libertarian, and if you knew anything about Libertarianism, you would know that I do not support the death penalty or military intervention. Therefore, your references to death row and US airstrikes are completely irrelevant.
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
06 Aug 2015 10:49 AM
"Yes, even if the mother is poor, she still doesn't have the right to strip the baby of his or her human life. You're making the implicit assumption that money adds value to life, which is false, as a life can be well-lived even in impoverishment."

Sadly all western countries disagree with you. Even Asia is on track.
Just google bortion laws by country wiki
Really only the third world countries that deny it because they want more control over women.


"Also, just because it's a short pain doesn't make it a justified pain. That pain shouldn't happen in the first place, because mothers ought to not have the right to become executioners."

--> The baby is unborn, it does not feel pain, it is not even conscience.

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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
06 Aug 2015 10:49 AM



"You're a huge idiot, making red herring fallacies like this. I'm a Libertarian, and if you knew anything about Libertarianism, you would know that I do not support the death penalty or military intervention. Therefore, your references to death row and US airstrikes are completely irrelevant."

You never said you are a Libertarian.
Even if you are a Libertarian, you would support bortions because it maximizes individual freedom and allows private businesses to conduct services which the public demands.


Fet/uses are not 'born' nor are they 'conscience'
They are simply a vessel you can argue.
You can argue the same against contraception since it "Destroys the potential for life"

The Libertarian Party of the US even stated that bortion is a neutral stance on their party and people can make their own decisions.

>Making bortion legal does not mean you HAVE TO get an bortion, it gives you the right to one if you want to have one.

The people who really are against bortions have some other previous religion conviction which shouldn't effect government matters.


Bortions are a needed necessity.

Europe already figured that out.
Asia already figured that out.

You realize if you make bortions illegal. Bortions are still going to happen, except they are going to happen out onto the "black market" without doctors and medical staff. And during many of those bortions done outside of medical care it becomes life threatening to the mothers and they can even lose their life in the progress.


Before Ireland slowly made bortions more legalized (still not fully legalized)
Hundreds of women every year died due to complications from unprofessional care when they tried borting by themselves.

I've read some articles and some of the ways they'd try borting the fetus is drinking poison, punching themselves, even throwing themselves down the stairs.

So you want that to happen when if it becomes illegalized?
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Scissorbane is not online. Scissorbane
Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 1337
06 Aug 2015 11:03 PM
"Even if you are a Libertarian, you would support bortions because it maximizes individual freedom and allows private businesses to conduct services which the public demands."

That's false. I'm sure there are Libertarians who support them, but many do not, as it takes the liberties of a human being. Human life does, in fact, begin at conception, as agreed upon by numerous physicians. The whole entire idea of Libertarianism is that we have maximum freedom with the caveat that we do not hurt others' individual rights; killing another human being is a profound violation of another's right to life. Rand Paul is a prime example of a self-proclaimed Libertarian who is pro-life.

Also, you're being really ignorant.. Libertarians don't support just any services that private establishments want to provide given demand, as they certainly wouldn't support services that hurt others' individual rights or liberties.

"The Libertarian Party of the US even stated that bortion is a neutral stance on their party"

Yes, it is a neutral stance, as in that it's debatable whether or not it adheres to our ideology.

"The baby is unborn, it does not feel pain, it is not even conscience."

I was replying to your early comment that predicated that a very short pain was justified, which it isn't since it's initial, and not retaliatory, force being applied upon another human being. In any case, you are, once again, false: unborn babies actually feel pain worse than adults, because of their vulnerability as their nerve receptors for pain are entirely developed whereas the more advanced pain-modifying processes have barely begun to form.

At 20 weeks, an unborn baby has a full complement of brain cells and the ability to experience pain, and prior weeks can show babies to respond physically to outside stimuli, indicating some degree of feeling.

My information comes from Robert J. White, M.D., PhD., professor of neurosurgery and Dr. Paul Ranalli, neurologist at the University of Toronto.

"The people who really are against bortions have some other previous religion conviction which shouldn't effect government matters."

This isn't even true. I have no religious convictions; I am against them for the reason that they hurt the individual liberty of fetuses, which are, indeed, human lives. I agree that we ought to retain a complete separation between Church and State, so you're actually agreeing with my beliefs by mentioning this.

"Bortions are a needed necessity.

Europe already figured that out.
Asia already figured that out."

A necessity is something that's required. Why is it required that we give authorization for human lives to end? Why is it required that we disregard the individual liberty and sanctity of a human life? Also, do you really think we should be taking after countries like Europe and Asia, fraught with oppressors and human rights violators?


I don't think you know what you're talking about.. Firstly, you don't understand that Libertarianism means standing for the liberty of all human beings, including fetuses, which are, by definition, living and human at conception. Secondly, you refuse to understand that unborn babies do indeed feel pain, especially at 20 weeks but even before, as cited by numerous reliable neurologists, neurosurgeons, and other M.D.'s that are a lot more credible than you are.
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
07 Aug 2015 11:52 AM
If you are going to argue that life begins at conception and that is the reason why bortions are not right then inherently birth control is immoral since it kills life after conception. / prevents it. Same as c/doms.

Are you still disagreeing that bortions are not allowed even in case of violations, cest, and mothers life in danger?

The nervous system only develops between eight-ten weeks.



"A necessity is something that's required. Why is it required that we give authorization for human lives to end? Why is it required that we disregard the individual liberty and sanctity of a human life? Also, do you really think we should be taking after countries like Europe and Asia, fraught with oppressors and human rights violators?"



Bortions are a necessity, If it is not authorized by those who want it under a medical professional, women will have them anyways. They will do it on their own hidden as previously stated, When you ban bortions you actually increase the death rates amoung mothers because they have their bortions in unsafe enviroments and backalley ways such as causing phyiscal harm for them to do so.

Its the womans choice to get an bortion.


If you take the stance that life begins at conception, EVEN before an embyro even forms. Then taking birth pills and using c/doms kills life and prevents it.


The other thing is, Conception is a process, not a distinct point in time

The process of conception, also known as fertilisation, involves many chemical reactions and processes. It is not an instantaneous occurrence.

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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
07 Aug 2015 11:55 AM
"Life begins at conception"

That "Life" has the same complexity as a skin cell from a human.
I don't think thats a feasible argument.

Especially in the early stages after conception, the soon to develope fetus does not have conscience. Hasn't even developed a nervous system to feel pain, and does not even have organs to consider it self 'alive'



If you are against bortions, Are you against birth control?
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MedievalGame123 is not online. MedievalGame123
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 7144
07 Aug 2015 07:58 PM
Wow this thread got big.
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Scissorbane is not online. Scissorbane
Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 1337
07 Aug 2015 09:40 PM
To answer your question, I only support preventative contraceptives, since they do not kill life.

I realize conception is a gradual process, but I was implying that the start of life is at the start of conception.

"Its the women's choice to get a bortion."

No it's not, because the fetus is not a part of her body insomuch as a human being in and of itself. These procedures are actually the escaping of choices, of consequences; additionally, they remove all choices and all liberties from the life of an unborn baby.

There are different definitions of "human," but I am adamantly against these procedures past about 18 weeks, when the baby can definitively feel pain, and have a full complement of brain cells that are present during adulthood. And I'm of course still morally/philosophically against the procedures before that point. Not going to bother arguing about it anymore though.
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
07 Aug 2015 09:56 PM
If you are against those procedures past 18 weeks then there really is no arguing platform past that if you are holding the pro-life decision.

I hope you realize that contraceptives are used dually as preventative and as a "emergency pill"

mainly all forms of birth control can act in this dual service



again, when the fetus is not vialable, alive, conscience, or can even feel pain women should still be able to get bortions.


because whether you like it or not.


just because you make bortion illegal, they are still going to happen, in some cases it even increases.


its better to have it in a safe, medical environment where everything can go smoothly.

rather it being taken on that owns individuals hand by backally bortion, or other stuff that is harmful to the mother itself.

and even if an bortion is being done past 18 weeks, atleast if it is in a medical profession, it can be handled professionally, and reduce pain to the mother and fetus if you consider it 'conscience'

rather than, again having a mother do it in a backally if you consider the fetus 'conscience' would have alot greater suffer.


not to put bortion on the criminalizing list, but the same thing with drugs.


just legalized weed, it is alot more safer and proper when it is legalized so it doesn't have to be a illegal criminal activity and possibly cost lives.
(although marijuana has little to none health effects.


even if you deny bortion for 'mainstream' use.

you should atleast allow it in emergency cases,

such as >cest, underage,mothers health, and even violation.

wouldn't be that fair for a 13 year old girl to have to go through that if she could already prevent the baby from entering the final stages of being born, and probably costing her own life and the babies life.


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Scissorbane is not online. Scissorbane
Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 1337
07 Aug 2015 10:33 PM
""I hope you realize that contraceptives are used dually as preventative and as a "emergency pill""

I said very directly that I only support the use of preventative contraceptives, and not emergency pills. Although, emergency pills are a lot more justified than the procedures we were talking about earlier, from a moral standpoint.

I said I was most against the procedures past 18 weeks, when babies can definitively feel pain according to numerous physicians, some of which are neurosurgeons I cited earlier.

Making the procedures illegal would surely reduce the total number of them occurring. Would more under-the-table procedures happen? Surely, but the fact of the matter is that, taken as a whole, there would be fewer procedures and fewer human lives lost. Yes, human lives will be lost through the coat-hanger procedures that occur outside of hospitals, but the point is that there will be fewer human lives lost than if it were a commercialized, legal service.

"again, when the fetus is not vialable, alive, conscience, or can even feel pain women should still be able to get bortions."

A fetus is alive you idiot, from the moment of conception. That's biological fact. Whether or not it's human is subjective, but in my book, from my perspective, it is -- and these procedures take that life away.

Anyways, I'm done arguing about it.
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
08 Aug 2015 10:24 AM
A fetus doesn't even develop right after the moment of conception so how can be conscience, feel pain, and be alive in that sense.

it is just as alive as a skin cell practically.


taking life to give life to another should be up to the mother.
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AwesomeKillerKevin is not online. AwesomeKillerKevin
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 16594
08 Aug 2015 10:28 AM
doesn't contingently develop right after the moment of conception*


again, in cases of cest, violation, and underage cases, its not fair for the girl to give up her life for something she didn't decide, even when the fetus inside her isn't even alive in the sense of having a nervous system or even being conscience for that matter.

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LegendSoul12 is not online. LegendSoul12
Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Total Posts: 13251
08 Aug 2015 10:28 AM
shut up
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