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Re: Valkyrie

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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 04:33 PM

So, as some of you will know, myself and gskw are working on a project called Valkyrie. For those of you that don't know about it, let me explain:
I want to be able to unify and connect games with the people that play them, as well as making the development of games easier in a sense. It seperates the roles of developing a game in a group, but still allows them to work together in a way that wouldn't have been easy or even practical in casual game development.

Features:
* (Players):
- In-game overlay to connect players without exiting your game.
- Allow players to follow their friends from inside your game. This includes into servers of your own game, all without having to worry about leaving your game.
- Achievements and points system. Kind of like Xbox Gs and stuff
- Reward your players. Valkyrie will come with its own currency-esque thing, which developers can give and use to let users buy in-game items. Mostly an incentive thing.
- Game-wide chat. Allow people all on the same game to talk about things easily.
- Global chat. Allow people on all Valkyrie enabled games to talk to eachother.
* (Developers):
- Access to the Valkyrie APIs: Valkyrie comes to boot with variations of the wrapper I'd built, with specific details in mind. Each type integrates neatly with the Valkyrie core and allows developers working on certain areas the right parts of the API without bulking out their workflow with excessive extras.
- Seperate your developers from your scripters: Everybody codes differently, but not everyone is good at everything. Valkyrie allows developers to create solutions and APIs without scripters having to worry about what goes on behind the scenes - They just have to require any of the Valkyrie APIs and everything they need is already there; definitions are readily integrated into either their respective API, or into the core, either way they're ready to be used and functional without all the tricky bits. Services are similar, neatly integrating with game:GetService().
- Seperate your scripters from your designers. Designers don't really want to have to touch your scripts in order to change behaviour. Face it, most designers don't even know how to print"Hello world", which is why Valkyrie will (try to) make it so they don't have to. Anything customizable can be defined readily by the scripter and Valkyrie will work on doing the rest through integrating and proxying requests to the custom behaviours.
- Do things faster. Defaultly, Valkyrie comes with a few definitions to help speed up prototyping. This includes inline properties for Instance.new, enhanced metamethods for instances, shorthand forms of common-ish Vector/CFrame representations, and the entire Material Design specification for Color3. Or you can import your own, easily. They're all ready made for you.
- Prevent cheaters: This one should be great fun. Valkyrie will monitor activity from your game either through default rules to match most basic exploits, or custom ones to match ones specific to your game. This links back to a database and allows for Valkyrie global bans. This is entirely automated, so there will be no global banning of people just because a dev doesn't like them.


Would you want to use this, and would you want to be part of a closed beta? (More beta than alpha)
From a Scripters point of view, how do you feel about this? What would you add, what would you change?

Thanks for taking your time to read whatever you did and answer whatever you have.
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JarodOfOrbiter is not online. JarodOfOrbiter
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Total Posts: 20029
02 Mar 2015 04:38 PM
I would answer, but for some reason I can't focus on anything but scripts at the moment.
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Prehistoricman is not online. Prehistoricman
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Total Posts: 12490
02 Mar 2015 04:39 PM
This sounds interesting. What's the current state of the API right now?


My feedback on '- Prevent cheaters':

To stop a noclip exploit, you may be able to set some blocks as markers for obvious exploiters. For a malicious dev to ban anybody they want, all they have to do is attach the anti-cheat to a CanCollide false part which is then placed over the victim's character.

It may be very difficult to stop malicious developers from banning anybody they like. How would you try to combat this?
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DrMathematica is not online. DrMathematica
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 27268
02 Mar 2015 04:44 PM
You've provided a concept; however, I feel it is incomplete.

What sort of impact could we expect in games? Your monitoring idea sounds pretty heavy performance wise. For instance, is it one of those things that can prove noticeable at high-usage?

Let me use an example:

JavaScript

var DOM = document.createElement("div");
> .0003s

Javascript [jQuery]
var DOM = $("< div >< /div >");
> .01300s

While it is a big performance hit, it's not really noticeable.

--

You also mention your "wrapper." Now this is something interesting. If it doesn't come full of "gotchas" and bugs that we'd have to work around, it'd be great to use.

Performance and usability, specifically, are what I am looking at. How smooth of a transition can this "Valkryie" be?
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 04:48 PM
I'll stop malicious developers from banning people as they wish the same way as I had in my old AC design.
Games are trusted - Only trusted games can ban people
There is no manual ban
Banning is based entirely off of loosely customisable rules designed to be modifiable to match any game behaviour without inherently signling out specific users
When a user is banned, it is submitted with a reason and game. The user can appeal to a ban, and provided sufficient evidence they will be unbanned.
If a game is recieving multiple reports of it banning people wrongly, it can be untrusted and all bans coming from that gameId lifted until the develope fixes their ban rules.
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 04:51 PM
Transitioning to Valkyrie is designed to be native, and people can continue doing what they used to without issue. There is a lot of testing going into this to make sure that everything works properly.

Valkyrie may actually be faster in certain cases: All the internal functions are optimized to use memoizing if they're stateless, and I intend on adding automatic detection and memoizing of stateless functions for functions that the wrapper parses.
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HexC3D is not online. HexC3D
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 10044
02 Mar 2015 05:10 PM
The originality is ok, but the API sounds rather complex and time consuming.
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IoIiderp is not online. IoIiderp
Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 8613
02 Mar 2015 05:24 PM
Yes I would love to use this, and yes I would also love to be part of closed beta.
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 05:30 PM
Awesome.
What is it about the API that feels so complex and time consuming?
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chimmihc is not online. chimmihc
Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 17143
02 Mar 2015 05:30 PM
"Would you want to use this"

yes


"and would you want to be part of a closed beta?"


yes but i probably wont have time to
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buildmodel is not online. buildmodel
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3778
02 Mar 2015 05:34 PM
Woah.
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buildmodel is not online. buildmodel
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3778
02 Mar 2015 05:35 PM
Good Luck!
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 05:36 PM
Thanks
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IoIiderp is not online. IoIiderp
Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 8613
02 Mar 2015 05:36 PM
Idk ill give it a try though :P
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cntkillme is not online. cntkillme
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Total Posts: 44956
02 Mar 2015 05:43 PM
woohoo I didn't read all of it but 10/10 gratz for finishing a project, something I've yet to do.
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 05:55 PM
It's not finished, but it's something that I have found the motivation to finish on the basis that it will enhance the quality of games on here
Hopefully.
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BowtieMod is not online. BowtieMod
Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Total Posts: 804
02 Mar 2015 06:00 PM
Do you have anything in mind to prevent developers from crafting ban requests themselves?
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buildmodel is not online. buildmodel
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3778
02 Mar 2015 06:05 PM
When will be be released?

How far are you at it?
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HexC3D is not online. HexC3D
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 10044
02 Mar 2015 06:13 PM
eLunate, I give you my best of wishes.
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 06:19 PM
I do indeed. Myself and gskw have worked out how to stop devs from bypassing being untrusted, so if they become untrusted because they are banning users manually, bans by them will be lifted and their identification untrusted. Permenantly.
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 07:20 PM
Pew pew bumparump
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bosswalrus is not online. bosswalrus
Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5430
02 Mar 2015 07:52 PM
It sounds amazing, though I'm confsued.

Probably because I am a 'Noob".

Is this for your own game??
Is this like some system??

"I like to program." - Bosswalrus
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eLunate is not online. eLunate
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 13268
02 Mar 2015 07:56 PM
This is for any game, as it's designed to integrate neatly with even existing games
This is 'some system' indeed.
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bosswalrus is not online. bosswalrus
Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5430
02 Mar 2015 08:04 PM
This will be amazing.

"I like to program." - Bosswalrus
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DrMathematica is not online. DrMathematica
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 27268
02 Mar 2015 09:45 PM
Any ETA on its open development? I can wait to develop my castle SIM builder game until then.
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